This
Is My Speculating Blog:
Do
you feel like speculating?
This
is the blog where I chose to discuss and explore speculative subjects
that might be of interest to some of the Latter-day Saints.
Some
of my speculation is an educated guess; and, some of it probably
isn't worth the paper it is written on.
I
created this blog after debating a couple of my long speculative
essays with a person on LDS Freedom Forum who calls himself, “Kingdom
of ZION”.
I
found the debate and banter interesting, but I think I frustrated
“Kingdom of ZION”. He claimed to KNOW the Truth concerning all
of these things and seemed a bit frustrated when I refused to accept
some of his Truths as being true.
The
main thing I learned from the creation of these two threads is that
there is a whole pile of LDS type people out there who do NOT believe
that spirit bodies are conceived, that spirit bodies grow, and that
spirit bodies are born. They do NOT believe that Heavenly Mother is
literally the mother of our spirit bodies. They also do NOT believe
that our spirit bodies were conceived by Heavenly Father.
I
had no idea that there were participants on LDS forums who held such
beliefs. It was kind of fascinating.
But
for me, it takes the meaning out of Heavenly Father and Heavenly
Mother and makes the titles pointless if they really are NOT the
parents of our spirit bodies. Before the debate and after the
debate, I continued to hold the belief that Heavenly Mother is
literally the mother of our spirit bodies, and She literally gave
birth to our spirit bodies.
Of
course, for me, that's just a personal interpretation of the LDS
Scriptures, where we are repeatedly told and commanded to address God
as our Father in Heaven. For me, it makes no sense to do so unless
God the Father is literally the father of our spirit bodies. For me,
there's also no sense in claiming that we have a Mother there in
Heaven unless she is literally the mother of our spirit bodies.
But,
I must admit that that is personal preference and personal
interpretation, because I cannot seem to find any way to convince
people to believe that when God told Moses, “You are my son”, God
actually meant that literally and meant it to mean that God is
literally the Father of Moses' spirit body. Others seem to interpret
that to mean that God or Jehovah is the father of Moses' conversion
to the Gospel or some such.
I
seem to take the LDS Scriptures literally, and it literally changes
their meaning. Others seem to take a more figurative approach to the
LDS Scriptures.
The
other thing I managed to accomplish in these threads is that I got a
handful of people constantly complaining that my posts are way too
long. At least they are not living by every word that proceeds out
of my mouth. I don't think I could handle it if
they were.
--
Speculations
on Elections:
There
is a massively popular public thread on LDS Freedom Forum regarding
the Fastest Way to Make Your Calling and Election Sure. Fast
tracking or forcing the C&E made Sure seemed unwise to me,
because whenever I have forced the things of God in the past or tried
to accelerate them, it resulted in going backwards fast instead of
going forwards.
I
banged around in that thread for a couple of weeks going nowhere
fast.
When
people in the thread started to tell me to shut up and go away and
started to vote me off the island (in a nice way of course), I
decided it was time to do as they were suggesting, and I haven't been
back since.
There's
lots of nice and fascinating speculation in that thread, though,
along with a few unpleasant people.
--
--
Digging
through the Pre-Mortal Existences:
I
was drawn into another speculative subject on LDS Freedom Forum. As
one can see, LDS Freedom Forum is a gold mine for speculation, and I
did my share:
I
decided to put parts of it here on my blog because interesting and
useful posts have a tendency to disappear on LDS Freedom Forum.
Furthermore, we probably touched upon 80% of LDS speculation in one
form or another within this particular thread; and, we managed to do
so without starting another Flame War.
--
The
Speculation that Started the New Thread:
It
was suggested that it was possible to sin in Heaven during our
Pre-Mortal Existence.
My
Response:
Deliberate
rebellion against God the Father, His Plan of Salvation, His Church
or Kingdom, His Ordinances, and His Priesthood is a SIN no matter
when we commit that sin during our existence. One third of the hosts
of Heaven were deliberately guilty of that sin or committed that sin
in the pre-mortal world, and it put an end to their progress.
Rebellion against God and His Kingdom or Church can have serious
consequences.
Any time we deliberately or knowingly rebel against God, His Kingdom or Church, and His Chosen One, it is a sin; and, it will put an end to our progress unless we repent.
Some of the more valiant spirits or the great ones were Fore-Ordained to various Gifts or Elections while there in the pre-mortal world. We can rest assured that Mary was fore-ordained to be the mother of the Savior. I feel confident that Elijah in the Bible and Nephi in Helaman 7 were fore-ordained to receive the Sealing Power. Certainly others were fore-ordained to specific Callings, like Moses, Noah, Adam, Abraham, Enoch, Israel, Jesus Christ, and Joseph Smith. Some of them were fore-ordained, Elected, Gifted, or given a prior Election to be Seers in this life. This kind of tells me that they either sinned less or progressed further than I did in the pre-mortal realms.
Any time we deliberately or knowingly rebel against God, His Kingdom or Church, and His Chosen One, it is a sin; and, it will put an end to our progress unless we repent.
Some of the more valiant spirits or the great ones were Fore-Ordained to various Gifts or Elections while there in the pre-mortal world. We can rest assured that Mary was fore-ordained to be the mother of the Savior. I feel confident that Elijah in the Bible and Nephi in Helaman 7 were fore-ordained to receive the Sealing Power. Certainly others were fore-ordained to specific Callings, like Moses, Noah, Adam, Abraham, Enoch, Israel, Jesus Christ, and Joseph Smith. Some of them were fore-ordained, Elected, Gifted, or given a prior Election to be Seers in this life. This kind of tells me that they either sinned less or progressed further than I did in the pre-mortal realms.
--
“One
Third” In Scriptures Is a Form of Rounding:
Regarding
the Third Part of the hosts of heaven who rebelled against God and
were cast out of Heaven, leisure_59 wrote:
I
see this so much in the discussions, that hardly anybody corrects;
i.e., "one third "....
The two scriptures (one in Revelation, and the other in D & C 29) both say "a third part" which could be 15% or 60 %, instead of 33%.
The two scriptures (one in Revelation, and the other in D & C 29) both say "a third part" which could be 15% or 60 %, instead of 33%.
My
Response:
Oh yes, most certainly!
All of this stuff is a rounding. I would say that it's closer to 33% than 66%, though.
--
We Don't Come Here to Earth as Equals:
WarMonger wrote:
”There is no such thing as a free
lunch". It is always taught that we will be resurrected as a
free gift – not so we had to earn that right in the preexistence.
Yes fore-ordination is definitely a sound doctrine, but not
predestined. We don't come to this world as equals and our mortal
bodies also affect our capabilities as our spirit can only interface
using our mortal brain.
My Comments:
Equality is an illusion. It's a man-made concept.
Some people have suggested to me that it is Satan who introduces to
us the concept that we each should be equal carbon-copies of each
other, in order to stir up jealousies within us when we can clearly
see that we are not equal.
We each came to this earth with different Callings and different Elections or Gifts or Fore-Ordinations. Not all of us are going to receive the Sealing Power while we are here in mortality, because we were simply not fore-ordained unto to that particular Election or Gift from God. Not all of us are going to be Dispensation Heads, because only a few of us received that particular Election while in the pre-mortal world.
The idea that we could have sinned in Heaven and the idea that we are not equal when we come here to earth explain lots of things that we see going on around us here in mortality. Some of us progressed further in the pre-mortal life than others did. Some of us will deliberately choose to end our progress or progression while we are here in this mortal life; thus, it's not going to turn out equal in the next life for any of us. Even in the Celestial Kingdom there will be an unequal pecking order, and all of us who go to the Celestial Kingdom will be learning from those who are further along than we are.
Mark My Words
We each came to this earth with different Callings and different Elections or Gifts or Fore-Ordinations. Not all of us are going to receive the Sealing Power while we are here in mortality, because we were simply not fore-ordained unto to that particular Election or Gift from God. Not all of us are going to be Dispensation Heads, because only a few of us received that particular Election while in the pre-mortal world.
The idea that we could have sinned in Heaven and the idea that we are not equal when we come here to earth explain lots of things that we see going on around us here in mortality. Some of us progressed further in the pre-mortal life than others did. Some of us will deliberately choose to end our progress or progression while we are here in this mortal life; thus, it's not going to turn out equal in the next life for any of us. Even in the Celestial Kingdom there will be an unequal pecking order, and all of us who go to the Celestial Kingdom will be learning from those who are further along than we are.
Mark My Words
--
Christ's Sheep Hear His Voice:
Lizzy60 wrote:
I don't think it has anything to do with any sort of percentages whatsoever. A "third part" indicates that there are 2 other parts, or groups. One group made a final choice to follow Lucifer and never come to this probation. The other 2 groups do come to this earth, and I believe that these are what Christ referred to as the wheat and the tares, or the sheep and the goats. The sheep hear his voice. They are the "part" who will accept Christ and believe Him. The other part are those of whom he says in John 8 that they do not recognize Him, because they are not His sheep.
These three "parts" could be any combination of percentages. I highly doubt that it is one/third, one/third, one/third number-wise.
I don't think it has anything to do with any sort of percentages whatsoever. A "third part" indicates that there are 2 other parts, or groups. One group made a final choice to follow Lucifer and never come to this probation. The other 2 groups do come to this earth, and I believe that these are what Christ referred to as the wheat and the tares, or the sheep and the goats. The sheep hear his voice. They are the "part" who will accept Christ and believe Him. The other part are those of whom he says in John 8 that they do not recognize Him, because they are not His sheep.
These three "parts" could be any combination of percentages. I highly doubt that it is one/third, one/third, one/third number-wise.
My Response:
Beautifully said.
Some people are just a whole lot more comfortable in a bar or pub than they are in church. It's just the way they are. I was never comfortable in a bar; but in recent times, I have been very comfortable around publicans, convicts, sinners, the mentally insane, the dying, and non-LDS people. They are me. They are my kind of people. During the past year, I have found myself getting more and more comfortable in church, and more and more comfortable around the Latter-day Saints.
When Joseph Smith tells us that the Parable of the Ten Virgins is a direct representation of the Latter-day Saints in the last days, and that half of them are not going to be ready for the Bridegroom when He comes, that 50% representation is a rough number. It could in fact be anywhere from 45% to 55%, given the fact that there were Ten Virgins in the Parable.
Oh, and what happens when ALL of the Latter-day Saints heed the warning of the Parable of the Ten Virgins, ALL repent, ALL turn to Christ, ALL are filled with the Holy Ghost, ALL united in purpose, ALL start paying tithing, ALL worthily receive a Temple Recommend, and ALL start sustaining Christ's Brethren or Christ's LDS General Authorities? Then 100% of the Latter-day Saints are ready for the Bridegroom and He can come today.
Then the parable has fulfilled the purpose for which it was given and is thus no longer reflective of the reality that we currently see around us.
Beautifully said.
Some people are just a whole lot more comfortable in a bar or pub than they are in church. It's just the way they are. I was never comfortable in a bar; but in recent times, I have been very comfortable around publicans, convicts, sinners, the mentally insane, the dying, and non-LDS people. They are me. They are my kind of people. During the past year, I have found myself getting more and more comfortable in church, and more and more comfortable around the Latter-day Saints.
When Joseph Smith tells us that the Parable of the Ten Virgins is a direct representation of the Latter-day Saints in the last days, and that half of them are not going to be ready for the Bridegroom when He comes, that 50% representation is a rough number. It could in fact be anywhere from 45% to 55%, given the fact that there were Ten Virgins in the Parable.
Oh, and what happens when ALL of the Latter-day Saints heed the warning of the Parable of the Ten Virgins, ALL repent, ALL turn to Christ, ALL are filled with the Holy Ghost, ALL united in purpose, ALL start paying tithing, ALL worthily receive a Temple Recommend, and ALL start sustaining Christ's Brethren or Christ's LDS General Authorities? Then 100% of the Latter-day Saints are ready for the Bridegroom and He can come today.
Then the parable has fulfilled the purpose for which it was given and is thus no longer reflective of the reality that we currently see around us.
I don't know what MMP is. The first thing that
jumped to mind is the "Multiple Multiple Personalities"
doctrine. I tend to buy into that concept, because I clearly am NOT
the same person that I was a couple of years ago. It's like I have
been reborn as a completely new and different person.
Mark My Words
--
Oh the Confusion!:
Mark Me wrote: It could in fact
be anywhere from 45% to 55%, given the fact that there were Ten
Virgins in the Parable.
Jeremy wrote:
What?
How does 5 out of 10 equal 45%? How does it equal 55%?
How does 5 out of 10 equal 45%? How does it equal 55%?
My Response:
Jeremy,
You need to take a course in statistics. It's the standard deviation, or the mean or average, or the bell curve. What's the difference between 45% and 55%? It is 10% or one virgin. %50 is at the center of the bell curve, with 45% and 55% on either side of the peak or apex of the bell and lower than the peak in statistical probability. According to the standard deviation, it is less likely to be 45% or 55% than it is to be 50%; but, 45% still remains a possibility as does 55%. The further you deviate from the norm or the mean or the average, the less likely it becomes that your guess will be true. Thus, it is highly unlikely that all 10 virgins or 100% of the Latter-day Saints will be ready for the Bridegroom, but it's not impossible.
Statistics is a very fascinating subject as is population dynamics and organizational behavior.
Jeremy,
You need to take a course in statistics. It's the standard deviation, or the mean or average, or the bell curve. What's the difference between 45% and 55%? It is 10% or one virgin. %50 is at the center of the bell curve, with 45% and 55% on either side of the peak or apex of the bell and lower than the peak in statistical probability. According to the standard deviation, it is less likely to be 45% or 55% than it is to be 50%; but, 45% still remains a possibility as does 55%. The further you deviate from the norm or the mean or the average, the less likely it becomes that your guess will be true. Thus, it is highly unlikely that all 10 virgins or 100% of the Latter-day Saints will be ready for the Bridegroom, but it's not impossible.
Statistics is a very fascinating subject as is population dynamics and organizational behavior.
It makes no sense to split a virgin in half, except when Solomon is doing it of course. But since, according to Joseph Smith, the Ten Virgins represent the Latter-day Saints from the point of the Restoration of the Gospel in 1830 until the Second Coming of Christ, it does indeed make logical sense to talk about 45% of the Latter-day Saints or 55% of the Latter-day Saints being ready for the Bridegroom when He comes.
Mark My Words
--
Divine Inequality:
The younger generation has spent very little time thinking about Communism or studying Communism. What is Communism? Communism is enforced equality. Communism is militant atheism or enforced atheism.
They will kill you if you refuse to see things the way that they see them. They will kill you if you refuse to do things the way they do them. They will kill you if you have more than they do, or appear to have more than they do.
A lot of time, effort, inspiration, potential, and life can be wasted by trying to enforce equality. Who is the one who wants us wasting time, effort, potential, and life? It’s Satan. The drive to enforce equality does NOT come from God. It comes from Satan.
And, just because we live in America, we are not automatically immune to the lures of enforced equality.
Every generation we always have some kind of equal rights amendment or some kind of program to make the sexes equal.
In contrast, God deliberately created us different and unequal, male and female, for a wise and glorious purpose. This was God’s Plan, to have us unequal and different. There are many many things that a woman can do that a man simply cannot do. There are also a couple of things that a man can do that a woman cannot do. A woman makes for a rather poor father to emulate, especially for a young man. A woman doesn’t have the mechanism needed to become a father, either.
Again, study the Parable of the Talents or the Parable of the Elections. Notice that some were given 10 Elections. Some were given a couple of Elections or a few Elections. And, some were only given one Election or one Talent. Notice that they were created unequal by God right from the very beginning. God did it this way so that we would actually have a need for each other. Together, we are greater than the sum of our unequal parts. Together, we can approach perfection, fullness, wholeness, unity, or completion. Standing alone, we will fall.
The younger generation has spent very little time thinking about Communism or studying Communism. What is Communism? Communism is enforced equality. Communism is militant atheism or enforced atheism.
They will kill you if you refuse to see things the way that they see them. They will kill you if you refuse to do things the way they do them. They will kill you if you have more than they do, or appear to have more than they do.
A lot of time, effort, inspiration, potential, and life can be wasted by trying to enforce equality. Who is the one who wants us wasting time, effort, potential, and life? It’s Satan. The drive to enforce equality does NOT come from God. It comes from Satan.
And, just because we live in America, we are not automatically immune to the lures of enforced equality.
Every generation we always have some kind of equal rights amendment or some kind of program to make the sexes equal.
In contrast, God deliberately created us different and unequal, male and female, for a wise and glorious purpose. This was God’s Plan, to have us unequal and different. There are many many things that a woman can do that a man simply cannot do. There are also a couple of things that a man can do that a woman cannot do. A woman makes for a rather poor father to emulate, especially for a young man. A woman doesn’t have the mechanism needed to become a father, either.
Again, study the Parable of the Talents or the Parable of the Elections. Notice that some were given 10 Elections. Some were given a couple of Elections or a few Elections. And, some were only given one Election or one Talent. Notice that they were created unequal by God right from the very beginning. God did it this way so that we would actually have a need for each other. Together, we are greater than the sum of our unequal parts. Together, we can approach perfection, fullness, wholeness, unity, or completion. Standing alone, we will fall.
BTW, they literally killed all of Doctors and
Scientists in Cambodia because the Doctors and Scientists had more
than the rest of the people had. That's the fruits of enforced
equality. Enforced equality is a Satanic principle.
Study Pol Pot and the Killing Fields to see the fruits of Enforced Equality.
Study Pol Pot and the Killing Fields to see the fruits of Enforced Equality.
--
The Parable of the Ten Virgins:
The beauty of a parable is that it can have dozens
of different interpretations, each of which is valid and useful.
That's why some claim that it's useful to have the gift of the Holy
Ghost while studying the parables, because the Holy Ghost will help
you to see other possible and useful interpretations for the very
same parable.
I latched onto the Joseph Smith Translation of the parable of the Ten Virgins, where Joseph equates the Ten Virgins to the Latter-day Saints. I personally took that to mean ALL baptized Latter-day Saints, from 1830 to the Second Coming. What is this Wedding Feast that the Ten Virgins are headed towards? It's the Celestial Kingdom. ALL baptized Latter-day Saints are ELECTED or qualified to go to the Celestial Kingdom (as are children under the age of eight).
Thus, I personally tend to interpret the Parable of the Ten Virgins to mean that, of all the people who are baptized Latter-day Saints (past, present, and future), half of them are going to apostatize, or turn apathetic, or stop keeping the commandments, or not have the Holy Ghost in them when Christ comes. There will be no oil in their lamps when the Bridegroom comes and they will be off doing something else. It's also possible that half of the baptized Latter-day Saints in the spirit world might actually remain in spirit prison, when Christ comes and when the oil-filled Latter-day Saints in Paradise are resurrected from the dead on the Morning of the First Resurrection.
Everyone tends to focus on the half of the Latter-day Saints who aren't going to make it. But, this parable tells us that half of the baptized Latter-day Saints (past, present, and future) will actually make it to the Wedding Feast or the Celestial Kingdom.
I latched onto the Joseph Smith Translation of the parable of the Ten Virgins, where Joseph equates the Ten Virgins to the Latter-day Saints. I personally took that to mean ALL baptized Latter-day Saints, from 1830 to the Second Coming. What is this Wedding Feast that the Ten Virgins are headed towards? It's the Celestial Kingdom. ALL baptized Latter-day Saints are ELECTED or qualified to go to the Celestial Kingdom (as are children under the age of eight).
Thus, I personally tend to interpret the Parable of the Ten Virgins to mean that, of all the people who are baptized Latter-day Saints (past, present, and future), half of them are going to apostatize, or turn apathetic, or stop keeping the commandments, or not have the Holy Ghost in them when Christ comes. There will be no oil in their lamps when the Bridegroom comes and they will be off doing something else. It's also possible that half of the baptized Latter-day Saints in the spirit world might actually remain in spirit prison, when Christ comes and when the oil-filled Latter-day Saints in Paradise are resurrected from the dead on the Morning of the First Resurrection.
Everyone tends to focus on the half of the Latter-day Saints who aren't going to make it. But, this parable tells us that half of the baptized Latter-day Saints (past, present, and future) will actually make it to the Wedding Feast or the Celestial Kingdom.
In the pre-mortal world, the Brethren were God the
Father, Jesus Christ, and the Holy Ghost. In the pre-mortal world
apathy or a refusal to sustain the Brethren was also a reason why
some of them were exiled from Heaven. A refusal to sustain the
Brethren or God's Chosen Prophets can have eternal consequences as
well, no matter when we chose to go that route during our eternal
progression.
--
Our Repentance Changes God's Mind:
Although it can be fun to run the numbers and to speculate, you don't want to make a religion out of it or bet the farm on it. God changes His mind all the time depending upon whether we choose to repent or not, or depending upon whether we choose to be baptized into the LDS Church or not, or depending upon whether we choose to sustain the Brethren or not.
If all ten virgins repent and keep oil in their lamps, then they will all be going to the Wedding Feast or the Celestial Kingdom, and the parable be damned.
God was going to destroy Ninevah, and God sent Jonah to Ninevah to warn them. But guess what? They repented, and the city was spared, much to Jonah's disappointment. Jonah didn't like them and wanted them to be destroyed, but they repented and God changed His mind.
We actually have the power to change God's mind
simply by choosing to repent instead of choosing to rebel against God
and His Prophets.
--
Mucking Maybe Pays:
Is the MMP the Multiple Mortal Probations and the
Doctrine of Eternal Lives issue?
I have chosen to stay away from that one, because I get the impression that the topic is 95% speculation and personal interpretation, and only 5% revelation.
In order to get into that topic and do it justice, I would have to get into lots of personal speculation and personal interpretation. And, I can't even begin to count the number of times when people have told me that they hate it when I start to speculate or guess. Plus, I prefer to stick with what I know to be true. I discuss some of this in private with my LDS guru friend, and that's good enough.
I collect articles on these two subjects, but that's as far as I choose to get into it. As I see it, my personal speculation is no better than anyone else's; and, their personal interpretations are really no better than mine either.
I have chosen to stay away from that one, because I get the impression that the topic is 95% speculation and personal interpretation, and only 5% revelation.
In order to get into that topic and do it justice, I would have to get into lots of personal speculation and personal interpretation. And, I can't even begin to count the number of times when people have told me that they hate it when I start to speculate or guess. Plus, I prefer to stick with what I know to be true. I discuss some of this in private with my LDS guru friend, and that's good enough.
I collect articles on these two subjects, but that's as far as I choose to get into it. As I see it, my personal speculation is no better than anyone else's; and, their personal interpretations are really no better than mine either.
--
Doctrine of Eternal Lives:
freedomforall wrote:
Have you either read or heard of "Teachings
of the Doctrine of Eternal Lives?" Author = anonymous.
Apparently, some person decided to compile dozens of quotes by
various church leaders for review without giving any comments or pros
and cons. In most of the quotes, or at least a large share of the
quotes, they have parts of a phrase in bold type. As we know, almost
any scripture can be presented as truth even though the
interpretations don't match. Thus, I do not know if the book is
worth believing or if someone is merely trying to pass something off
as truth by their own interpretation. And what is the intended,
actual message in each quote? I've got some serious pondering to do
at any rate. I've stated elsewhere that I do not believe in MMP.
That's not to say we do not have eternal progression so as to become
like God and Jesus. But gaining more than one body, ehh!
--
How
Much Force Was Used?:
The
way I tend to visualize the war in Heaven is that people were given a
choice. They could go with God's plan or they could go with Satan's
plan. The whole division was a matter of personal choice. Those who
chose Satan's plan were eventually shown the door, and they
deliberately walked through the door of their own free will and
choice because they wanted to follow Satan instead of wanting to
follow God. They literally did NOT want to come here and get a
physical body and go through all the pain and grief associated with
mortality, and they literally got their wish. God always gives us
what we want most. Of course, once they walked through the door,
then they obviously found themselves on the outside looking in.
The
fence-sitters chose NOT to walk through that door or chose NOT to
cross that line, and chose to remain in Heaven instead.
Those of us who are born here in mortality chose to come here and receive a physical body. We chose to follow God's plan, no matter how painful it might prove to be.
Those of us who are born here in mortality chose to come here and receive a physical body. We chose to follow God's plan, no matter how painful it might prove to be.
--
Jeremy
wrote:
Maybe it was by their own free will and choice or maybe it wasn't.
Maybe it was by their own free will and choice or maybe it wasn't.
D&C
29:36-37: And it came to pass that Adam, being tempted of the
devil — for, behold, the devil was before Adam, for he rebelled
against me, saying, Give me thine honor, which is my power; and
also a third part of the hosts of heaven turned he away from me
because of their agency;
And they were thrust down, and thus came the devil and his angels;
And they were thrust down, and thus came the devil and his angels;
Revelation
12:9: And the great dragon was cast out, that old
serpent, called the Devil, and Satan, which deceiveth the whole
world: he was cast out into the earth, and his angels were
cast out with him.
My Response:
According to this scripture, their Agency was the trigger. They wouldn't have been cast out if they hadn't chosen to follow Satan instead of following God. They were "his angels" because they chose to be. You have to make a choice in order to become a member of Hell's Angels. It doesn't just happen automatically.
Although, I wouldn't be surprised to hear that there was a bit of pushing and shoving going on trying to herd them out the door after they had made their choice.
--
Multiple
Mortal Probations vs Eternal Lives:
WarMonger
wrote:
MMP???
There is only one spiritual body and after the resurrection that is
your final state. What ever God does is forever – there can be no
further resurrection. If you fail in second estate – there is
no point in having multiple second estates as you would continue to
fail – it is the nature of your spirit. To have MMP would make the
entire plan of salvation invalid.
Kingdom of ZION replied:
'Multiple Mortal Probations' is a Satanic version of the truth. 'Eternal Lives' is the true doctrine. There is not Multiple Second Estate Probations! You either prove yourself worthy of a higher glory from the pre-existence or in this world, and you only come once to do this!
All other 'lives' plural are beings sent on missions into this world to serve the Father's will. 'Resurrection' is a word misunderstood and misused by many. You can be raised from the dead to live again in the Millennium, but not receive a permanent body. One may not be resurrected, electing to wait in hopes of a more perfect resurrection.
Much more can be said of these things but, it has been my experience to be a waste of time to do it publicly!
Shalom
'Multiple Mortal Probations' is a Satanic version of the truth. 'Eternal Lives' is the true doctrine. There is not Multiple Second Estate Probations! You either prove yourself worthy of a higher glory from the pre-existence or in this world, and you only come once to do this!
All other 'lives' plural are beings sent on missions into this world to serve the Father's will. 'Resurrection' is a word misunderstood and misused by many. You can be raised from the dead to live again in the Millennium, but not receive a permanent body. One may not be resurrected, electing to wait in hopes of a more perfect resurrection.
Much more can be said of these things but, it has been my experience to be a waste of time to do it publicly!
Shalom
--
I liked this quote from Kingdom of ZION. In my
humble opinion, the dude needs to hire a scribe or editor, because I
can't understand half of what he writes; but, this message came
through clear enough to be of use to me. I added a couple of letters
to a couple of words to make it grammatically correct. I hope he
will forgive me.
--
--
Lucifer
Lost Some of His Powers and Priesthoods:
Apocryphal
writings that I don't have direct access to seem to indicate that
when Satan rebelled against God, they actually stripped him of two
thirds of his priesthoods and powers, before sending him here to
earth.
So, he arrives here with one third of his power and priesthoods; and, as he continues to deliberately rebel against God and Christ, Satan continues to lose some of his remaining power and priesthood.
The implication I take from this, and it's just personal speculation, is that as Satan and the residents of Outer Darkness continue to rebel against God and Christ, they will continue to lose Light and Intelligence, until they simply evaporate into nothingness and cease to exist. We continue to exist because God and Christ, the Light of Christ, sustains us. We are not self-existing or self-sustaining like the Gods are.
The impression I get is that it's possible to experience a real spiritual death or a real spirit death if we continue to remain separated from God and Christ for a long period of time, such as will happen to the people in Outer Darkness.
If Lucifer's spirit were to die a literal spirit death, I imagine the spirit matter in his body would go back into the pool of spirit matter, and his Intelligence would go back into the Cosmic Pool of Intelligences. Stir the pots, and parts of Lucifer's spirit material and Intelligence could be reborn as bugs, beasts, animals, and possibly even other human beings. Under this speculative hypothetical scenario, it's possible that some parts of Lucifer may at one time after his spirit death actually find a fulness or joy.
I remember hearing it said that God doesn't waste good material. I sometimes get the impression that God doesn't waste bad material either.
So, he arrives here with one third of his power and priesthoods; and, as he continues to deliberately rebel against God and Christ, Satan continues to lose some of his remaining power and priesthood.
The implication I take from this, and it's just personal speculation, is that as Satan and the residents of Outer Darkness continue to rebel against God and Christ, they will continue to lose Light and Intelligence, until they simply evaporate into nothingness and cease to exist. We continue to exist because God and Christ, the Light of Christ, sustains us. We are not self-existing or self-sustaining like the Gods are.
The impression I get is that it's possible to experience a real spiritual death or a real spirit death if we continue to remain separated from God and Christ for a long period of time, such as will happen to the people in Outer Darkness.
If Lucifer's spirit were to die a literal spirit death, I imagine the spirit matter in his body would go back into the pool of spirit matter, and his Intelligence would go back into the Cosmic Pool of Intelligences. Stir the pots, and parts of Lucifer's spirit material and Intelligence could be reborn as bugs, beasts, animals, and possibly even other human beings. Under this speculative hypothetical scenario, it's possible that some parts of Lucifer may at one time after his spirit death actually find a fulness or joy.
I remember hearing it said that God doesn't waste good material. I sometimes get the impression that God doesn't waste bad material either.
--
The Expanding Earth Theory:
I had fun discussing the Expanding Earth Theory with friends, the idea that the Earth is literally growing:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oJfBSc6e7QQ
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7kL7qDeI05U
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zy3_sWF7tv4
I have had some difficulty with the Expanding Earth and Expanding Universe theories; but, I was also surprised how easily I was able to adjust.
Friends inside the LDS Church and outside it have speculated that there is a place in the universe where new fresh matter is flowing into the universe from outside the system. If true, then that means that our universe could theoretically expand for all eternity and never experience entropy or proton death. Furthermore, the Big Bang could have been such an event, where matter is flooding into the system from someplace else. Lots of things become possible if we believe that the Gods function and live on multiple dimensions, instead of the three dimensions or four (time) that we are used to. Multidimensional beings would be easily capable of injecting new fresh matter into our three dimensional reality.
Imagine what a Being or God who exists outside of time and space might be capable of? What would such a Transcendent Multi-dimensional Being be capable of doing and accomplishing? Just the fact that God is capable of thinking more than one thought at a time, multi-tasking, puts God in a whole other league.
The apocryphal writings that Hugh Nibley had a knack for digging up seemed to indicate that the Gods have a trough or mechanism for removing the entropy from matter. The Gods know how to inject syntropy into matter. I kind of got the impression that this trough existed outside of our universe, and then when the matter was fresh and new, it was injected into our universe. There might also be a collector at the other end taking the dead matter and putting it back into the trough for renewal. Or the injection of matter could be taking place simultaneously all throughout the universe, with each and every planet in the universe slowly growing in size.
Two different ideas were presented to me by LDS people. One is the idea that there is some kind of dynamo or reactor or spirit at the center of each planet that is actually producing the new matter in the right combination and proper amounts. The other idea is that throughout the whole earth, matter is being slowly introduced from outside the system in the right proportions all under the direction of God. Of course, these kinds of things require that we not limit ourselves to known science but leap out in faith choosing to believe that God knows how to do things that we currently don't know how to do.
Joseph Smith always said that each person would be resurrected with the very same matter that was in his physical body when he died. That always bothered me. But, it doesn't any more, if the earth is actually expanding and new matter is constantly being introduced to the system.
I also always had the impression that for the water to successfully cover the earth during the great flood, then water had to be introduced into the system by God and then subsequently removed.
Anyway, I don't want to build a religion on it or bet the farm on it; but, these topics have been fun to discuss and think about. The fact that they are speculative or apocryphal tells us that caution and reservation are advised. I don't want to make a religion out of it, but just consider the possibilities instead.
--
We Don't Know What an Intelligence Really Is:
Yes,
it's very important to emphasize, as I did, that this is in the realm
of speculation. So, once again, I will speculate.
The confusing part, the part that I spent endless days debating with "Kingdom of ZION" about, is that it is NEVER revealed to us what the true nature of Intelligence really is. Does it have a shape? What does it consist of? The closest definition we have comes from Joseph Smith who periodically states through revelation that Intelligence is Light and Truth.
Well, we know that Light has no mass. So, it can take any shape it wants, or have no shape at all. Truth? Well, I personally interpret that as Thought. Again, just personal interpretation; but, our Thoughts reveal the Truth of who and what we really are. Another term that I see that is used interchangeably with Intelligence is the word Spark. In the Transformer movies, you have the All Spark. Same concept.
Joseph Smith also talks about Spirit Matter in some of his revelations. Spirit Matter is just a more refined form of matter. What do we know about matter? It has mass. It can be shaped or molded into any form that we desire. Matter can be turned into a body, either a spirit body or a physical body. Joseph Smith also talks about Chaotic Matter or unorganized matter.
What happens when you combine Intelligence with Spirit Matter? Then you have some new life form. The Intelligence makes the inert Spirit Matter come alive. So, the Gods create the spirit body of a horse, and then they put some Intelligence or Light and Truth or Thought or Spark into that spirit body, and it becomes a living spirit horse. The Intelligence can go into any kind of Spirit Body in order to give it life or self-awareness or Light. The word Spark implies some kind of Light. Some Intelligences are greater than other Intelligences, and since God seems to be able to see these Intelligences, one assumes that God picks the greatest Intelligences to go into His own spirit offspring. Heavenly Mother makes the Spirit Body, and Heavenly Father (using the Priesthood) puts the Seed, the Spark, or the Intelligence into it making that Spirit Body come alive.
The Book of Mormon tells us that there are two kinds of things, things that act and things that are acted upon. I see Spirit Matter as the thing that is acted upon. The Intelligence, Spark, Light, or Thought it is the thing that acts; and, what does it act upon? The Intelligence acts upon the Spirit Matter. The Intelligence gives the Spirit Matter thought, life, and the ability to choose.
--
Kingdom of ZION and I went round and round debating all of this and getting nowhere. He would lay out bread crumbs or clues and had me spending as much time trying to guess who and what he is and what he is all about, as he did trying to get me to understand what he was saying to me. We kind of wore each other out, I think.
BTW, today's guess: Kingdom of ZION is Kabbalist and a practitioner of the Kabbalah. Am I close?
The confusing part, the part that I spent endless days debating with "Kingdom of ZION" about, is that it is NEVER revealed to us what the true nature of Intelligence really is. Does it have a shape? What does it consist of? The closest definition we have comes from Joseph Smith who periodically states through revelation that Intelligence is Light and Truth.
Well, we know that Light has no mass. So, it can take any shape it wants, or have no shape at all. Truth? Well, I personally interpret that as Thought. Again, just personal interpretation; but, our Thoughts reveal the Truth of who and what we really are. Another term that I see that is used interchangeably with Intelligence is the word Spark. In the Transformer movies, you have the All Spark. Same concept.
Joseph Smith also talks about Spirit Matter in some of his revelations. Spirit Matter is just a more refined form of matter. What do we know about matter? It has mass. It can be shaped or molded into any form that we desire. Matter can be turned into a body, either a spirit body or a physical body. Joseph Smith also talks about Chaotic Matter or unorganized matter.
What happens when you combine Intelligence with Spirit Matter? Then you have some new life form. The Intelligence makes the inert Spirit Matter come alive. So, the Gods create the spirit body of a horse, and then they put some Intelligence or Light and Truth or Thought or Spark into that spirit body, and it becomes a living spirit horse. The Intelligence can go into any kind of Spirit Body in order to give it life or self-awareness or Light. The word Spark implies some kind of Light. Some Intelligences are greater than other Intelligences, and since God seems to be able to see these Intelligences, one assumes that God picks the greatest Intelligences to go into His own spirit offspring. Heavenly Mother makes the Spirit Body, and Heavenly Father (using the Priesthood) puts the Seed, the Spark, or the Intelligence into it making that Spirit Body come alive.
The Book of Mormon tells us that there are two kinds of things, things that act and things that are acted upon. I see Spirit Matter as the thing that is acted upon. The Intelligence, Spark, Light, or Thought it is the thing that acts; and, what does it act upon? The Intelligence acts upon the Spirit Matter. The Intelligence gives the Spirit Matter thought, life, and the ability to choose.
--
Kingdom of ZION and I went round and round debating all of this and getting nowhere. He would lay out bread crumbs or clues and had me spending as much time trying to guess who and what he is and what he is all about, as he did trying to get me to understand what he was saying to me. We kind of wore each other out, I think.
BTW, today's guess: Kingdom of ZION is Kabbalist and a practitioner of the Kabbalah. Am I close?
Mark My Words
--
Parts
Is Parts, But Which Parts Are Alive?:
Another
part of all of this that Kingdom of ZION and I spent debating about
is which part of us is Eternal, and which part of us is renewable,
malleable, or able to be born or reborn.
Again, we never came to agreement or consensus.
My own personal opinion is that the Intelligence and the Spirit Matter are Eternal and indestructible. What can be changed or modified is the way the Spirit Matter is organized. Spirit Matter can be organized into the spirit body of a horse or the spirit body of a man, just like Physical Matter can be organized into a horse or a man or a building.
This led to the whole Spirit Birth debate. Joseph Smith stated that if something can be born, then it can die. Since I personally believe that our Spirit Bodies were organized inside Heavenly Mother out of unorganized Spirit Matter and believe that our Spirit Bodies were literally born from Heavenly Mother, then that means that our Spirit Bodies can also die a spiritual death or a spirit death, if God the Father and the Priesthood stop sustaining our Spirit Bodies. If a Spirit Body dies, then it breaks down into its constituent parts, inert Spirit Matter and shapeless Light or Intelligence. The Spirit Matter and the Intelligence remain Eternal and the same, even though the Spirit Body has died. That Spirit Matter can then be re-shaped into a new and different Spirit Body, by Heavenly Mother Horse or Heavenly Mother; and, parts or all of the Intelligence can then be put into a different Spirit Body by the Priesthood of God.
That's the way I have currently come to see it, and I fully expect every other Latter-day Saint to see it a different way, because it is personal speculation and NOT revelation from God. I fully intend to adjust my thinking as further believable light and knowledge come my way.
Again, we never came to agreement or consensus.
My own personal opinion is that the Intelligence and the Spirit Matter are Eternal and indestructible. What can be changed or modified is the way the Spirit Matter is organized. Spirit Matter can be organized into the spirit body of a horse or the spirit body of a man, just like Physical Matter can be organized into a horse or a man or a building.
This led to the whole Spirit Birth debate. Joseph Smith stated that if something can be born, then it can die. Since I personally believe that our Spirit Bodies were organized inside Heavenly Mother out of unorganized Spirit Matter and believe that our Spirit Bodies were literally born from Heavenly Mother, then that means that our Spirit Bodies can also die a spiritual death or a spirit death, if God the Father and the Priesthood stop sustaining our Spirit Bodies. If a Spirit Body dies, then it breaks down into its constituent parts, inert Spirit Matter and shapeless Light or Intelligence. The Spirit Matter and the Intelligence remain Eternal and the same, even though the Spirit Body has died. That Spirit Matter can then be re-shaped into a new and different Spirit Body, by Heavenly Mother Horse or Heavenly Mother; and, parts or all of the Intelligence can then be put into a different Spirit Body by the Priesthood of God.
That's the way I have currently come to see it, and I fully expect every other Latter-day Saint to see it a different way, because it is personal speculation and NOT revelation from God. I fully intend to adjust my thinking as further believable light and knowledge come my way.
--
Can a God Choose to Die?:
WarMonger
wrote: Ecclesiastes 3:14 I know that, whatsoever God doeth,
it shall be for ever: nothing can be put to it, nor any thing taken
from it: and God doeth it, that men should fear before him.
What God does is forever and can't be undone the spirit body merged with intelligence can't be undone. Same with the resurrection can't be undone and that is the final state of the person.
What God does is forever and can't be undone the spirit body merged with intelligence can't be undone. Same with the resurrection can't be undone and that is the final state of the person.
My
Response:
I have tended to be in agreement with this for decades of my life, until a few LDS people started to point out a couple of different things to me.
The conventional wisdom all throughout LDS Theology is that Michael was either a God in the Council of the Gods or a terrestrial translated being living on another world (or both) and had a physical body, long before Michael became Adam. But then what do we see? We see a dead Adam lying in the Garden of Eden, and then God the Father breathes life into him. Go figure!
Then in some of the different LDS scenarios, Adam is actually shaking hands with Messengers from Heaven, and those Messengers have physical bodies. Later, some of those very same Messengers are born here on this earth. Go figure!
Then we have Jesus Christ himself. He was a God before coming here. He comes here and is born of Mary, but He is still an immortal indestructible God. He could come off of that cross at any time in real time healing himself as He went, if He wanted to do so. Here Jesus is, an immortal God here on the earth; and, what does He choose to do? He chooses to die. He chooses to let Himself get crucified because the Father commanded it. Jesus literally has to will Himself to die at the end when His mission on this earth was finished. Here we have a God willing Himself to die. Go figure!
There's something strange going on here when Gods can choose to die and start over again. Why would they make such a sacrifice?
I have tended to be in agreement with this for decades of my life, until a few LDS people started to point out a couple of different things to me.
The conventional wisdom all throughout LDS Theology is that Michael was either a God in the Council of the Gods or a terrestrial translated being living on another world (or both) and had a physical body, long before Michael became Adam. But then what do we see? We see a dead Adam lying in the Garden of Eden, and then God the Father breathes life into him. Go figure!
Then in some of the different LDS scenarios, Adam is actually shaking hands with Messengers from Heaven, and those Messengers have physical bodies. Later, some of those very same Messengers are born here on this earth. Go figure!
Then we have Jesus Christ himself. He was a God before coming here. He comes here and is born of Mary, but He is still an immortal indestructible God. He could come off of that cross at any time in real time healing himself as He went, if He wanted to do so. Here Jesus is, an immortal God here on the earth; and, what does He choose to do? He chooses to die. He chooses to let Himself get crucified because the Father commanded it. Jesus literally has to will Himself to die at the end when His mission on this earth was finished. Here we have a God willing Himself to die. Go figure!
There's something strange going on here when Gods can choose to die and start over again. Why would they make such a sacrifice?
--
The Gods Have Done This Before:
If Adam and Eve hadn't chosen to step down from
their exalted position, then where would we all be right now?
It's really as if the Gods and the Council of the Gods mean it whenever they say that their work and glory is to bring to pass the immortality and eternal life of man. It's as if they are not in it for themselves. Go figure!
It's really as if the Gods and the Council of the Gods mean it whenever they say that their work and glory is to bring to pass the immortality and eternal life of man. It's as if they are not in it for themselves. Go figure!
Moses 1: 25-39:
25 And calling upon the name of God, he beheld his glory again, for it was upon him; and he heard a voice, saying: Blessed art thou, Moses, for I, the Almighty, have chosen thee, and thou shalt be made stronger than many waters; for they shall obey thy command as if thou wert God.
26 And lo, I am with thee, even unto the end of thy days; for thou shalt deliver my people from bondage, even Israel my chosen.
27 And it came to pass, as the voice was still speaking, Moses cast his eyes and beheld the earth, yea, even all of it; and there was not a particle of it which he did not behold, discerning it by the spirit of God.
28 And he beheld also the inhabitants thereof, and there was not a soul which he beheld not; and he discerned them by the Spirit of God; and their numbers were great, even numberless as the sand upon the sea shore.
29 And he beheld many lands; and each land was called earth, and there were inhabitants on the face thereof.
30 And it came to pass that Moses called upon God, saying: Tell me, I pray thee, why these things are so, and by what thou madest them?
31 And behold, the glory of the Lord was upon Moses, so that Moses stood in the presence of God, and talked with him face to face. And the Lord God said unto Moses: For mine own purpose have I made these things. Here is wisdom and it remaineth in me.
32 And by the word of my power, have I created them, which is mine Only Begotten Son, who is full of grace and truth.
33 And worlds without number have I created; and I also created them for mine own purpose; and by the Son I created them, which is mine Only Begotten.
34 And the first man of all men have I called Adam, which is many.
35 But only an account of this earth, and the inhabitants thereof, give I unto you. For behold, there are many worlds that have passed away by the word of my power. And there are many that now stand, and innumerable are they unto man; but all things are numbered unto me, for they are mine and I know them.
36 And it came to pass that Moses spake unto the Lord, saying: Be merciful unto thy servant, O God, and tell me concerning this earth, and the inhabitants thereof, and also the heavens, and then thy servant will be content.
37 And the Lord God spake unto Moses, saying: The heavens, they are many, and they cannot be numbered unto man; but they are numbered unto me, for they are mine.
38 And as one earth shall pass away, and the heavens thereof even so shall another come; and there is no end to my works, neither to my words.
39 For behold, this is my work and my glory--to bring to pass the immortality and eternal life of man.
25 And calling upon the name of God, he beheld his glory again, for it was upon him; and he heard a voice, saying: Blessed art thou, Moses, for I, the Almighty, have chosen thee, and thou shalt be made stronger than many waters; for they shall obey thy command as if thou wert God.
26 And lo, I am with thee, even unto the end of thy days; for thou shalt deliver my people from bondage, even Israel my chosen.
27 And it came to pass, as the voice was still speaking, Moses cast his eyes and beheld the earth, yea, even all of it; and there was not a particle of it which he did not behold, discerning it by the spirit of God.
28 And he beheld also the inhabitants thereof, and there was not a soul which he beheld not; and he discerned them by the Spirit of God; and their numbers were great, even numberless as the sand upon the sea shore.
29 And he beheld many lands; and each land was called earth, and there were inhabitants on the face thereof.
30 And it came to pass that Moses called upon God, saying: Tell me, I pray thee, why these things are so, and by what thou madest them?
31 And behold, the glory of the Lord was upon Moses, so that Moses stood in the presence of God, and talked with him face to face. And the Lord God said unto Moses: For mine own purpose have I made these things. Here is wisdom and it remaineth in me.
32 And by the word of my power, have I created them, which is mine Only Begotten Son, who is full of grace and truth.
33 And worlds without number have I created; and I also created them for mine own purpose; and by the Son I created them, which is mine Only Begotten.
34 And the first man of all men have I called Adam, which is many.
35 But only an account of this earth, and the inhabitants thereof, give I unto you. For behold, there are many worlds that have passed away by the word of my power. And there are many that now stand, and innumerable are they unto man; but all things are numbered unto me, for they are mine and I know them.
36 And it came to pass that Moses spake unto the Lord, saying: Be merciful unto thy servant, O God, and tell me concerning this earth, and the inhabitants thereof, and also the heavens, and then thy servant will be content.
37 And the Lord God spake unto Moses, saying: The heavens, they are many, and they cannot be numbered unto man; but they are numbered unto me, for they are mine.
38 And as one earth shall pass away, and the heavens thereof even so shall another come; and there is no end to my works, neither to my words.
39 For behold, this is my work and my glory--to bring to pass the immortality and eternal life of man.
I have had LDS friends tell me to think about the
other worlds that were created and passed away before our world was
created. Some suggest that there were first fruits resurrected on
those worlds, just like there are first fruits resurrected on this
world. They told me to think about Adams many. What does it mean to
have many Adams of many different worlds?
Our current Adam on this world has already become a God again. Do you suppose that the Adams on the other worlds have also followed the same pattern and become Gods long before this earth was created? Joseph Smith said that God the Father lived as a mortal man on some other earth before becoming God the Father, which means that He was resurrected from the dead long before He became God the Father and long before this earth was created.
Granted, this can get to be kind of weird, because God told Moses that He was only going to talk about this world.
There are times when God the Father tells His Son Christ Jehovah that they are going to run things on this earth the way they were run on other worlds.
I sometimes wonder, therefore, if our Jesus Christ might in fact have been a Savior on other worlds before becoming the Savior of our world. I often get the impression that this wasn't His first time at bat. It's like He had already done this before somewhere else. I sometimes wonder if our God the Father might have been the Savior on a couple of different worlds before becoming the Father of our spirits.
Who knows what is possible when the Gods have all Eternity to work with!
Again, I must emphasize that this is personal speculation; but, it can be a great deal of fun to speculate nonetheless.
Our current Adam on this world has already become a God again. Do you suppose that the Adams on the other worlds have also followed the same pattern and become Gods long before this earth was created? Joseph Smith said that God the Father lived as a mortal man on some other earth before becoming God the Father, which means that He was resurrected from the dead long before He became God the Father and long before this earth was created.
Granted, this can get to be kind of weird, because God told Moses that He was only going to talk about this world.
There are times when God the Father tells His Son Christ Jehovah that they are going to run things on this earth the way they were run on other worlds.
I sometimes wonder, therefore, if our Jesus Christ might in fact have been a Savior on other worlds before becoming the Savior of our world. I often get the impression that this wasn't His first time at bat. It's like He had already done this before somewhere else. I sometimes wonder if our God the Father might have been the Savior on a couple of different worlds before becoming the Father of our spirits.
Who knows what is possible when the Gods have all Eternity to work with!
Again, I must emphasize that this is personal speculation; but, it can be a great deal of fun to speculate nonetheless.
--
Conclusion:
How's that for some digging and speculating?
Again, I emphasize that I am not authorized to represent the Church
of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints. All that I write here is
personal speculation or guesswork. I have received no revelation
from God letting me know how things really work in Heaven. I'm not a
Prophet, Seer, or Revelator.
I'm just a regular nobody Latter-day Saint who
likes to study and discuss the LDS Scriptures and who likes to
sustain the Brethren both local and general.
Mark My Words
Mark My Words
19JUL2014 Version.
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