Regarding the Male and Female Nature of God

Regarding the Male and Female Nature of God:

After writing some of the “Of God and Goddesses” essays, I was surprised to discover that there are many people who have extreme difficulties viewing God as a male and female pair – Mr. and Mrs. God. It doesn't work for them. It isn't the way that they visualize Heaven to be. I found it quite interesting. I even found a group in the LDS Church who seem to believe that God is single, and that God is a man. They state that God is NOT a male and female pair, and they claim that they can prove it using statements made by Joseph Smith. That was quite interesting to me, and I will come back to it later.

This is a subject where I just refuse to draw a line in the sand and then stand behind it. There's too much that we simply do not know. I force myself to keep my mind open to all possibilities where the pre-mortal realms and afterlife are concerned.

To start this essay, I will now restate some of my original assumptions. Later, I will discuss some of the alternatives that I have encountered.

My original assumption is that the Gods come in pairs – male and female, husband and wife, father and mother, Mr. and Mrs. God.

My assumption is based in large part upon the revelation and vision given to Sydney Rigdon and Joseph Smith.

D&C 76: 22-24:

22 And now, after the many testimonies which have been given of him, this is the testimony, last of all, which we give of him: That he lives!

23 For we saw him, even on the right hand of God; and we heard the voice bearing record that he is the Only Begotten of the Father--

24 That by him, and through him, and of him, the worlds are and were created, and the inhabitants thereof are begotten sons and daughters unto God.

I always interpreted this scripture to mean that you and I are the spirit children of God the Father and Heavenly Mother. I am a child of God. You are a child of God. It's a logical interpretation, because I know that God the Father isn't my earthly father or my physical biological father. So, how else could God the Father have begotten me and you unless it was by siring our spirit bodies or our spirits? That's the way it is done here, so why not in Heaven as well? As I saw it, the whole of our existence here on this earth serves as a template or a model for how it will be in Heaven. This earthly life is a practice-run for Heaven. It made sense to me, but obviously, it doesn't make sense to others.

In D&C 76: 26,27 and Isaiah 14: 12, Lucifer is described as a Son of the Morning. I and many other Latter-day Saints interpreted “The Morning” as the time when Heavenly Father and Heavenly Mother first started having spirit children, and Lucifer was one of their first spirit children.

In LDS literature, Jesus Christ is described as the Only Begotten of the Father in the flesh, meaning that Jesus is the only person on this earth who literally has God the Father as his biological father or the father of his flesh.

So, how does the pre-mortal Christ Jehovah fit into all of this? Over and over again in LDS scripture, Jesus Christ is described as the Firstborn. If Jesus Christ is the Firstborn, then it is logical to assume that there is a second-born and a third-born and so on. Why call Jesus Christ the Firstborn if He wasn't the first one born? Obviously, Jesus Christ was not the first one born on this planet. So, what does it mean when we say that Jesus Christ is the Firstborn? Many of us believe that it means that Jesus Christ was the first spirit child born of Heavenly Father and Heavenly Mother. Christ Jehovah is literally their firstborn spirit child.

Our resurrected Lord Jesus Christ states in D&C 93:21-24:

21 And now, verily I say unto you, I was in the beginning with the Father, and am the Firstborn;

22 And all those who are begotten through me are partakers of the glory of the same, and are the church of the Firstborn.

23 Ye were also in the beginning with the Father; that which is Spirit, even the Spirit of truth;

24 And truth is knowledge of things as they are, and as they were, and as they are to come;

25 And whatsoever is more or less than this is the spirit of that wicked one who was a liar from the beginning.

In the beginning in the pre-mortal realm, Jesus Christ was the Firstborn of God the Father; and, we become the Children of Christ when we are baptized into His Church, the Church of the Firstborn. In the beginning, when Heavenly Father and Heavenly Mother first started having spirit children, Christ Jehovah was their Firstborn. This scripture also implies that our spirits were also born in the beginning when God the Father and Goddess the Mother first started having spirit children of their own, but we are not their Firstborn.

Job 38: 4-7:

4 Where wast thou when I laid the foundations of the earth? declare, if thou hast understanding.

5 Who hath laid the measures thereof, if thou knowest? or who hath stretched the line upon it?

6 Whereupon are the foundations thereof fastened? or who laid the corner stone thereof;

7 When the morning stars sang together, and all the sons of God shouted for joy?

Who are the morning stars that existed before the foundations of this earth? You and I are the morning starts or the spirit children of God the Father. Our spirits or our spirit bodies became the sons and daughters of God right from the very moment that Heavenly Mother gave birth to us or our spirit bodies in the pre-mortal realms.

I have reasons for believing the way that I believe, and they can be found in the canonized scriptures of the Latter-day Saints. These initial assumptions served as the foundation for my later conclusions.

Under this model, you and I are brothers and sisters, because we each have the same Heavenly Father; and, He is literally the father of our spirit bodies making you and me related in the pre-mortal realms. Jesus Christ is our elder brother in the pre-mortal spirit world, because He is the first born spirit body or spirit child of Heavenly Father and Heavenly Mother.

Many modern-day Christian scholars and Dead Sea Scroll scholars now realize and know that the Jewish scribes revised and rewrote the Old Testament eliminating many of the doctrines and concepts that Enoch, Noah, Abraham, and Moses knew, believed, and taught. The Jewish scribes made extra effort to remove any mention of God's wife. Any mention of Mother in Heaven or the Divine Feminine was modified or removed, or depicted as a false god. The Jewish scribes also removed any mention of the anthropomorphic nature of God and His Wife, leading the way for most subsequent Judea-Christians to visualize God as some kind of spirit or cosmic fog.

Why did Jesus fight and resist the scribes and Pharisees and Sadducees so vigorously? It's because they had changed, revised, and eliminated many of the scriptures in the Old Testament, thus corrupting the Gospel and making it something incorrect and alien. It's sad, but true; and, students of the Dead Sea Scrolls and Book of Mormon can see that it is so. But, the damage has been done, and it's hard to put the genie back into the bottle.

Even to this day, if one looks up Elohim online, he will quickly be inundated with statements from Jewish Rabbis telling us that Elohim is singular, because there is only one God. For them, Elohim the plural of El (eloah) must be singular, because they have no way to understand that there might in fact be more than one God. The Jewish Rabbis likewise have difficulty believing that Jesus Christ is the Son of God the Father and that these two are in fact two separate Gods, because in their minds such a thing is simply ludicrous and impossible. Mention to them the fact that God has a wife or that the Gods come in pairs, male and female; and, they simply go up the wall and practically start foaming at the mouth. They can't handle it. It goes contrary to everything that they have been taught and believe. It's polytheism, and polytheism is satanic and wrong. There is only one God, and He has no father, mother, wife, son, or daughter. It was interesting to me to encounter Latter-day Saints who hold similar points of view.

Many Christians also have difficulty believing and accepting these concepts as being real, true, or possible. They have similarly been taught that God is a spirit or a fog and that God cannot have a physical body; so, imagine their stunned surprise when someone tells them that we each have a Mother in Heaven and that God the Father has a wife. It's blasphemy! They don't want to hear it or have anything to do with it. The head goes into the sand so that they can cope. They simply cannot visualize a fog doing it with a fog and giving birth to a fog. In fact, I have a hard time visualizing that as well.

Now It's Time to Turn It All Upside-Down:

Enter the opposition: After writing some of these essays, some people have told me that there are no “just women made perfect” who administer as the Holy Ghost. Spirits and spirit bodies are not born; they just are. Our spirits or spirit bodies are immortal, with no beginning and no end. There are no females giving birth to anything in Heaven. There are no daughters of perdition. The Gods do NOT come in male and female pairs. There are no mothers in Heaven. God is male, and there are no female Gods. There is only one God, and He is a he; everything else is blasphemy. Then of course, I'm encouraged to pull my head out of the sand and see that it is so.

Obviously, many of them cannot successfully deny the fact that Jesus had a mother, so then they go on to make the claim that Jesus had no father. That's how it was a miraculous conception, because Jesus has no father. Likewise, in Heaven, there is no conception going on; and thus, God has no wife and is having no children either. According to this point of view, there are no Goddesses in Heaven, no mothers in Heaven, and the spirits of mankind or the spirit bodies of men are immortal and co-eternal with God.

So, where does this point of view come from? I will get to that in the next section.

I have run into this controversy before; and, it is indeed interesting to think about. Like I have said before, I like to keep my mind open to all the possibilities.

The way that most of my LDS friends seemed to reconcile this controversy is by calling the immortal part of the spirit or the co-eternal part of the spirit an Intelligence. In other words, the Intelligence is co-eternal with God; but, at some point God the Father and Goddess the Mother conceive and produce a spirit child and then the Intelligence goes into that spirit body when the spirit child is born. In other words, the Intelligence is immortal and eternal, but the spirit body or spirit (and gender) is born of Heavenly Mother in the pre-mortal realms. Obviously, the spirit matter that makes up the spirit body is immortal or eternal as well; but, the spirit body itself has an organized beginning when it is sired by Heavenly Father and born of Heavenly Mother.

Doctrine and Covenants 93:29: "Man was also in the beginning with God. Intelligence, or the light of truth, was not created or made, neither indeed can be."

According to this scripture, it was our Intelligence (and not necessarily our spirit body) that was neither created or made. Yet, the opposition persists.

Clearly, sex is a messy business, and most people want to remove it from Heaven by all means possible. In their mind, Heaven won't be heaven if there's that kind of stuff going on there.

So, how does it all really work? We don't know, and that's why we all speculate as to how it really works. When it comes to this subject, it's fun to speculate, because we really have nothing else to work with. Where this subject is concerned, apparently we are all free to believe whatever we want to believe and it won't affect our salvation one way or the other. God will simply settle the issue sometime in the next life and chose to leave it at that. Or, it's possible that the modern-day prophets simply never asked.

For now, the whole thing will remain foggy, and maybe God is a fog after all. It's possible. I don't remember ever having seen Him, so I can't tell you otherwise.

Joseph Smith on This Subject:

Now, I will start laying the foundation for the rebuttal or the opposing point of view. Remember that Joseph Smith is taken as an authority in the LDS Church. What he says goes and often takes precedence over anything else that might come later. The Latter-day Saints believe that Joseph Smith was a Prophet of God and that God told him how things really are.

D&C 131:7-8:

7 There is no such thing as immaterial matter. All spirit is matter, but it is more fine or pure, and can only be discerned by purer eyes;

8 We cannot see it; but when our bodies are purified we shall see that it is all matter.

D&C 130:22-23:

22 The Father has a body of flesh and bones as tangible as man's; the Son also; but the Holy Ghost has not a body of flesh and bones, but is a personage of Spirit. Were it not so, the Holy Ghost could not dwell in us.

23 A man may receive the Holy Ghost, and it may descend upon him and not tarry with him.

JS-H 1:16-17

16 I saw a pillar of light exactly over my head, above the brightness of the sun, which descended gradually until it fell upon me.

17 When the light rested upon me I saw two Personages, whose brightness and glory defy all description, standing above me in the air. One of them spake unto me, calling me by name and said, pointing to the other — This is My Beloved Son. Hear Him!

D&C 76:19-24:

19 And while we (Joseph Smith and Sidney Rigdon) meditated upon these things, the Lord touched the eyes of our understandings and they were opened, and the glory of the Lord shone round about.

20 And we beheld the glory of the Son, on the right hand of the Father, and received of his fulness;

21 And saw the holy angels, and them who are sanctified before his throne, worshiping God, and the Lamb, who worship him forever and ever.

22 And now, after the many testimonies which have been given of him, this is the testimony, last of all, which we give of him: That he lives!

23 For we saw him, even on the right hand of God; and we heard the voice bearing record that he is the Only Begotten of the Father--

24 That by him, and through him, and of him, the worlds are and were created, and the inhabitants thereof are begotten sons and daughters unto God.

Now, here it comes.

This is the part that is NOT canonized into LDS Scripture but that many Latter-day Saints believe to be true nonetheless.

From: “Teachings of Presidents of the Church: Joseph Smith”, p.16.

In April 1844, the Prophet taught: "I have another subject to dwell upon, which is calculated to exalt man. ... It is associated with the subject of the resurrection of the dead,-namely, the soul-the mind of man-the immortal spirit. Where did it come from? All learned men and doctors of divinity say that God created it in the beginning; but it is not so: the very idea lessens man in my estimation. I do not believe the doctrine; I know better. Hear it, all ye ends of the world; for God has told me so; and if you don't believe me, it will not make the truth without effect. ...

"I am dwelling on the immortality of the spirit of man. Is it logical to say that the intelligence of spirits is immortal, and yet that it has a beginning? The intelligence of spirits had no beginning, neither will it have an end. That is good logic. That which has a beginning may have an end. There never was a time when there were not spirits. ...

"... I take my ring from my finger and liken it unto the mind of man-the immortal part, because it had no beginning. Suppose you cut it in two; then it has a beginning and an end; but join it again, and it continues one eternal round. So with the spirit of man. As the Lord liveth, if it had a beginning, it will have an end. All the fools and learned and wise men from the beginning of creation, who say that the spirit of man had a beginning, prove that it must have an end; and if that doctrine is true, then the doctrine of annihilation would be true. But if I am right, I might with boldness proclaim from the house-tops that God never had the power to create the spirit of man at all. God himself could not create himself.

"Intelligence is eternal and exists upon a self-existent principle. It is a spirit from age to age and there is no creation about it. All the minds and spirits that God ever sent into the world are susceptible of enlargement.

"The first principles of man are self-existent with God. God himself, finding he was in the midst of spirits and glory, because he was more intelligent, saw proper to institute laws whereby the rest could have a privilege to advance like himself. The relationship we have with God places us in a situation to advance in knowledge. He has power to institute laws to instruct the weaker intelligences, that they may be exalted with himself, so that they might have one glory upon another, and all that knowledge, power, glory, and intelligence, which is requisite in order to save them in the world of spirits."

"We consider that God has created man with a mind capable of instruction, and a faculty which may be enlarged in proportion to the heed and diligence given to the light communicated from heaven to the intellect; and that the nearer man approaches perfection, the clearer are his views, and the greater his enjoyments, till he has overcome the evils of his life and lost every desire for sin; and like the ancients, arrives at that point of faith where he is wrapped in the power and glory of his Maker, and is caught up to dwell with Him. But we consider that this is a station to which no man ever arrived in a moment."

End: “Teachings of Presidents of the Church: Joseph Smith”, p.16

It starts out well. The Intelligence of spirits is immortal. I interpret this to mean that the mind or Intelligence of spirit bodies is eternal and immortal – Intelligence is immortal. By implication, spirit matter and physical matter are eternal and indestructible also. Spirit matter and physical matter can be organized, recycled, and reorganized; but, they cannot be destroyed or cease to exist. But then, it all gets confusing when the scribes start using Intelligence, Spirit Matter, Spirit Bodies, and Spirits interchangeably. Clearly, some people interpret this speech as meaning that Joseph Smith taught that spirit bodies are NOT born, but existed for all eternity, thus eliminating the need for Heavenly Mothers and any kind of sex in Heaven.

Obviously, we have no idea if Joseph's scribes transcribed all of this correctly. It's possible that Joseph Smith had all of this straight in his head, but his scribes filtered it through their preconceptions and jumbled it all together while writing it down. We simply do not know. We do know that none of this has been sustained and canonized into LDS scripture, so it isn't officially binding on the Latter-day Saints to believe this way. I can also see that people's interpretation of these concepts might be wrong. If any of us make the wrong assumptions or get the wrong interpretation, then all of our conclusions end up being wrong as well.

So, who is right and who is wrong? You will have to decide that for yourself. My goal is just to present the ideas and then let you make up your own mind what is true and what is false.

Elsewhere, though, there are indications that Joseph Smith was supportive of the idea of there being a Mother in Heaven. I base many of my assumptions and conclusions on D&C 76: 24, where it says that we each are begotten sons and daughters unto God the Father. How do fathers go about begetting children? There's always a mother involved there somewhere. I simply ask, “What's the good of having a Mother in Heaven if she isn't the mother of anything?”

A Contradictory Rebuttal Point of View:

Now, I want to discuss the ramifications of the point of view that states that there are no births taking place in Heaven because all spirit bodies are co-eternal with God.

Over on LDS Freedom Forum, after quoting the above uncanonized April 1844 Joseph Smith quote, Dustin Peterson mentioned an interesting alternative or interpretation to all of this:

Mother and Father are titles. When you are redeemed and exalted through one of their creation cycles you become one of Their children. There being no creation of spirits does not preclude a Mother. Again, it is a title, just one of Their many names. They aren't literally my spirit Parents as my son is the product of my body. Joseph was clear, "it is a spirit from age to age and there is no creation about it." "If it has a beginning it MUST have an end." You can mince and twist and question the accuracy of Joseph's words all you want. But he says those things too many times for it to be a mistake. If it was just a quick comment of a sentence or so then that would be one thing. But a few hundred words about the fact that we are co-equal (Joseph Fielding Smith added "co-eternal" in the brackets) with God, if it begins it must end, spirits aren't created, intelligence is A spirit from age to age, etc is too much to ignore or brush under the rug because it doesn't fit your idea of sex and wives and polygamy in the eternities. There is no scriptural justification for literal spirit parents/children and Joseph doesn't ever get into it either.

End of quote from Dustin Peterson.

http://www.ldsfreedomforum.com/viewtopic.php?f=14&t=33106

Interesting, don't you think? Do you believe it to be true? Do you want it to be true? I know that there have been situations and times in my life when I wanted life and existence and the future to be this way. Why? It's because this point of view implies that there is no actual parenting going on in Heaven. For me, parenting was a difficult situation, and I didn't want to have to do it all over again in the next life.

For me, this was an awesome response. I had never heard this point of view presented so clearly or precisely. It certainly gives me a lot more things to consider and think about. I try to keep my mind open to all points of view, even opposing points of view. Where this subject is concerned, I don't want to draw a line in the sand and then stand behind it. There's too many interesting ideas to consider and think about, before trying to decide for myself where I want to stand.

Subsequently Dustin Peterson wrote:

I do believe there is a Mother in Heaven though and there are many many Goddesses. I will never deny that there is a Mother in Heaven. I just define mother and father differently than you. My position is unlike most people's, in and out of the church.

Of course there are Goddesses in Heaven. There are a lot of Gods and Goddesses. What is a Goddess? An exalted women. Exaltation requires that we be bound to a member of the opposite sex. I actually do think we come in male/female pairs. How that happened I don't know. But Joseph was pretty clear that spirits cannot be created.

Dustin doesn't want to be represented as the poster-boy for the atheists or as the only punching bag for my counter proposals. Makes sense to me.

Dustin Peterson continued:

"Finding that He was in the midst of spirits..." God found Himself in the midst of spirits and glory, but He was more intelligent than they. So he created a plan where they could advance like Himself. He would become their Father in the process. Just as my dad isn't actually my dad, I consider him my dad in every respect. He has raised me, taught me, guided me and protected me. He has loved me and blessed me. He is my dad. But we share absolutely no physical relationship. Funny that such a deep and abiding, even familial and parental relationship can develop without any physical or literal characteristics shared.

http://www.ldsfreedomforum.com/viewtopic.php?f=14&t=33717

Over on the LDS Freedom Forum threads that I have started, there are a number of opposing points of view. One person gave me the distinct impression that he believes that God is a He, and that He has no need for a wife. There are no female Gods and thus there will be no daughters of perdition.

A person wrote something to this effect: “There are NO women made perfect who administer as the Holy Ghost. There are no pair of one male and one female Gods.” I take this to mean that the person believes that God is NOT a male and female pair and that there are NO female Gods.

Combine Joseph Smith's implications that there might be no spirit births taking place in Heaven with Dustin's assertions that Mother and Father are titles and should not be taken literally where Heaven is concerned; then add into the mix the Jewish and Christian teachings that there are no Goddesses in Heaven, no need for a Heavenly Mother, God is male, and there is only one God. Combine all of this together, and suddenly a different and interesting view of Heaven begins to emerge. I had never seen any of this from an LDS source or on an LDS site before. It was interesting to me.

Consolidating All the Varying Points of View:

Now I will take all the input that I have received from everyone inside and outside the LDS Church and try to present a consolidated or a combined point of view that represents the beliefs of all those who believe that there will be no literal birthing taking place in Heaven for whatever reason that they might choose to hold that point of view.

To summarize: There are NO birth-parents in Heaven. There are NO births taking place in Heaven. Mother and Father are simply titles, nothing more. They become our mother and father when they adopt us into their Kingdom. There are NO pregnancies in Heaven. There is no need for sex in Heaven. Marriage is a covenant or a business arrangement, and it is not used for procreation in Heaven. Their ways are not our ways. Their ways are higher and nobler than our ways. There is NO polygamy in Heaven. There is no need for a Mother in Heaven because there will be no mothering in Heaven. Heaven will be heaven because there is no tedious parenting going on in Heaven. God the Father is the only true God. There are no Goddesses in Heaven and no need for Goddesses in Heaven. There is only one God, and He is a man. Anything more or less than this is from Satan, the father of lies.

I know there are many women (binders full of women) who will be very relieved to be presented with this particular point of view. For their sake, let's hope that it is true. It's definitely worth mentioning the possibility. It removes all the messy business associated with sex and parenting, and it would indeed make Heaven seem a lot more like heaven to most people. It will make Heaven all clinical and sterile, which is the way many people visualize Heaven to be. I know that there are a lot of people who will be comforted by this particular version or interpretation of Heaven and are hoping that it will be so.

Spirits are NOT born; they are co-eternal with God. In Heaven, mother and father are simply titles, and nothing more; it's not to be taken literally. There are NO parents in Heaven.

All of this finally explains why I personally have never felt any kind of kinship or special personal relationship with God the Father. He might not be my father after all, and He won't ever be my father unless I go to the Celestial Kingdom where He will then take upon Him the titular role of my Father in Heaven. At that point, He will be my father, but in title only. Fascinating. I have never looked at it that way before. I have indeed tended to see Jesus Christ more as my father and my friend anyway; and, it fits. Jesus is the one that I feel a special relationship with or a gratitude for. That's interesting to me. It explains to me why I don't always seem to conform to the majority point of view, when it comes to some of these things.

I really didn't do all that well as a husband, father, and parent (just ask my wife and kids); and, for awhile there, I really wasn't looking forward to having to do it all over again. All of this means that there will be none of that messy sex business or family business there in Heaven, because there will be NO husbands and wives or marriage in Heaven. There will be NO pregnancies in Heaven. There will be no giving of birth in Heaven; and, there will be no messy parenting or diaper changing either. There will be NO birth-parents in Heaven. There will be NO parents or parenting in Heaven.

I can see how this could be a great blessing and relief to all of God's spirit associates. Fantastic, truly! I know what a pain and a bother it can be to be a parent. Don't want to do that again if I can skip it. What a relief! If my wife doesn't want me in the next life, what a relief, because I won't need a wife in the next life. It sure opens my eyes to other possibilities and helps to explain a few things that I could never figure out before. This would also explain why the LDS Prophets refuse to talk about our Mother in Heaven or God's Wife, because she really isn't our mother and she really doesn't matter in the end. Interesting. It turns everything upside-down onto its head. Does it not?

Is any of this true? I don't know. God maketh no such thing known unto me. If their interpretation of Joseph Smith's words is the true interpretation or the correct interpretation and Joseph Smith really said this, then all of this is the way it will really be in Heaven and in the afterlife, no matter how unpleasant this reality might seem to be to some of us. If the interpretation is true, then there will be NO birth-parents or parenting in Heaven. That's the way it will be. It will be mentoring instead of parenting.

Like I have said elsewhere, if any of my initial assumptions are wrong, then all of these essays simply fall flat and dead on the floor. I continue to emphasize my overall summation, “This is all personal opinion and personal speculation – that's why I (initially attempted to) quote no authority or input other than my own.” Obviously, I can't avoid bringing authority figures and rebuttal witnesses into these supplementary essays; but, throughout this entire process, I have desired to emphasize the speculative nature of all of this. Don't get fixated on any one idea being true, because Heaven may not turn out to be the way that some of us expect it to be. That's the lesson in all of this; it's all open to personal interpretation; and, whatever will be, will be.

I have even had atheist friends tell me that we all cease to exist when we die and that I'm worrying about all of this needlessly. They have a point. Over worry much?

Now that I have presented the rebuttal (hopefully in a fair and comprehensive manner), I want to take a moment to cover some of the difficulties I have had while trying to accept it as being true.

Where It Doesn't Fit for Me:

A thing can be known by studying or thinking about its opposite.

Clearly, I and others can see some problems with this particular model for the afterlife. If it is true that spirit bodies are co-eternal with God and there are no births taking place in Heaven and no parenting going on in Heaven, then this reality has some interesting ramifications.

There's one thing I do know for sure, though. I know that the idea that there are no parents in Heaven really kills dead the LDS Hymn #292, “O My Father”, by Eliza R. Snow, the favorite hymn of Mother's Day for most LDS people. This concept makes every verse of that hymn a lie. It takes the wind right out of the sails. There will be NO mothering in Heaven. There is no need for “traditional marriage” in Heaven. There are NO parents in Heaven. Spirits are NOT born in Heaven, but are co-eternal with God instead. There is NO sexual intercourse in Heaven. There are NO births in Heaven. There is only one God and He is a he. God just as well be single, because there is really no reason for Him to be married to anyone. The “O My Father” hymn needs to be changed to say, “In Heaven I have and need NO mother there, at least until one becomes my mother in title only.”

This belief in the absence of parenting in Heaven also slaughters the song, “I Am a Child of God”, because we are NOT literally children of God; and, we won't ever be unless we are baptized into His Church and adopted into His Kingdom. At that point, we become His children in title only, because we have been adopted and thus become heirs to His Kingdom. We are begotten by God when we are baptized and adopted into His Church or Kingdom. That's an interesting way to look at it all. That's certainly the way that Christ becomes our father, through adoption, so why not have it be the way that God the Father also becomes our father? “I'm NOT a child of God, until after I am baptized and adopted into His Kingdom.” I'm trying to figure out how to turn that one into an inspirational Primary song for the LDS children.

Let's get this clear. That stranger you see across from you is NOT your brother or is NOT your sister. You are not related to them at all, unless you both have been adopted into the Kingdom of God. Jesus is NOT our elder brother in Heaven, because we have NO brothers or sisters in Heaven, because we are all co-eternal with God. Jesus is NOT the first born spirit child of God the Father, because NO spirits are born, because all spirits are immortal and cannot die. There are NO birth-parents in Heaven. These ideas contradict many of the things that I have been taught, but that doesn't matter, if these ideas are really true. If we start with different assumptions or different interpretations, then we get completely different results. It's fascinating how that works.

I know that I like to try to follow these ideas through to their logical conclusion and exhaust all the possibilities.

Interestingly, the Abrahamic Covenant can continue to hold true, even if there are NO parents in Heaven. Instead of the blessings of the Gospel going to the literal seed of the body as is sometimes suggested and the physical seed being infinite, the blessings of Heaven or the inheritance will go to all of those who are adopted into Heaven by baptism, whether they are the literal seed of anyone or not. This is the way that the Abrahamic Covenant is often explained to be, anyway.

I think this will be a great relief to some of us. It doesn't matter whom we are sealed to in the LDS Temples, just as long as we are sealed to someone when God deems it necessary to do so. You can be sealed to anyone you want to be sealed to because parenthood isn't to be taken literally in Heaven. That's the way they used to do it back at the beginning of the LDS Church – sealing anyone to anybody that they wanted to be sealed to. Maybe their way was the right way, and our way is the wrong way? If you hate your father or mother here on this earth, you don't have to be sealed to them for all eternity if you don't want to be. That would be a great relief for many of us.

Opposing the Opposition:

Of course, I have also run into some women who love being mothers. They have told me that mothering is their greatest joy in life, and they look forward to doing more of it in Heaven. I know that they will be very disappointed by this particular interpretation or representation of the afterlife, knowing that “Mother” is simply a title and that they won't actually be doing any mothering in Heaven whatsoever. One woman's heaven is another woman's hell.

The chaos, energy, and excitement that comes with young children can be very exciting and contagious if one can learn to relax and simply go with it. It's hell if we try to resist it or control it, or resent it; but, it can be a lot of fun if we can adjust to it and learn to run with it. Some people are looking forward to having all of this going on in Heaven, because to them it is heaven. There are a few people who actually look forward to doing more parenting in Heaven, or look forward to their first chance at parenting when they get to Heaven. It gives them something to look forward to. To be frank, the idea of no spirit children in heaven sounds a little boring. What do you do with no spirit children in Heaven to look after and teach? You just sit on your throne all day while people stand around you and worship you. Sounds boring. Of course, there have been times in my life when I would have wanted it to be exactly that way; but, I have started to change my opinion once I got a grand-daughter of my own and have had such a great time loving her, taking care of her, and playing with her. Parenting and nurturing is a great deal of fun, if you are in the right frame of mind. If seen as an opportunity for fun instead of as a chore, parenting can bring a lot of happiness and joy.

Obviously, much of this “no parenting in Heaven” controversy can be resolved or eliminated if we simply choose to believe that the parts of the spirit body that are immortal and eternal and indestructible are the Intelligence and the spirit matter; yet, the spirit body itself is organized or comes into life when it is born of Heavenly Mother. But, this interpretation is messy for some people. Under this model, there are births, mothering, and parenting taking place in Heaven; and, the Gods are not single but come as male and female pairs. What we are now doing here on this earth will pretty much be the way it will be in Heaven, and many people simply do not want it to be so.

Nevertheless, the advantage that I see to my original assumptions is that life as we know it here on earth will continue much the same in the Heavens beyond. Our earth-life is a practice run for the real fun that is to come. Furthermore, the idea that “the spirit body can be born and can die” can actually serve to extend the Atonement and the Redemption into further realms of existence.

D&C 93: 32-35:

32 And every man whose spirit receiveth not the light is under condemnation.

33 For man is spirit. The elements are eternal, and spirit and element, inseparably connected, receive a fulness of joy;

34 And when separated, man cannot receive a fulness of joy.

35 The elements are the tabernacle of God; yea, man is the tabernacle of God, even temples; and whatsoever temple is defiled, God shall destroy that temple.

During the resurrection from the dead, our spirits (spirit bodies) and our physical bodies become inseparably connected, immortal, and receive a fulness of joy.

So, what happens to the spirit bodies of Satan and the devils who follow him? Satan and the devils will never be resurrected and made immortal because they will never receive physical bodies here in mortality. So, what will happen to Satan and his followers? Well, according to Joseph Smith, if a spirit body can be born, then it can also die. Think about it. To me, it's actually a really cool concept.

I have run into groups of Latter-day Saints who believe that if a spirit body can be created, then it can also be destroyed. In other words, Satan and the devils can be dissolved or annihilated or cease to exist. They can die. Without the resurrection from the dead, their spirits or spirit bodies can grow old or wear out, and then eventually die from a lack of light and love. In the LDS Church and LDS Scriptures, they talk about spiritual death in a metaphorical way. But, what if it can be taken literally? What if we take the scriptures literally? What if someone like Satan literally burns out his spirit body with darkness and hate to the point that his spirit body dies? Interesting to think about, isn't it?

Under this model or point of view, Satan and his followers will one day die a real spiritual death. Their spirit bodies will die. Their spirit matter will then go back into the grave or the trough to be recycled, and their immortal eternal indestructible Intelligence will be placed back into the cosmic pool of Intelligences to mingle and mix with all the other Intelligences. Then at some point in the distant future, parts of Satan and the devils can be reborn again in a new spirit body and start the process all over again. It's One Eternal Round.

Under this model, Christ and God the Father even have a plan for redeeming (or recycling) Satan and the other poor devils. It's just that their redemption will come much later in the plan. Some of them might be reborn as your spirit children in your Celestial Kingdom, and some of them might end up being foils or devils working against your plan of salvation. On the other hand, some of them might go on and be saved or resurrected or maybe even be exalted in the end. Who knows what you will end up with when the pot of Intelligences gets stirred and some of them get a chance to start over again. Under this model, Outer Darkness is the cosmic pool of Intelligences or the chaos from which all thought and existence springs. Satan and his followers will die, and then parts of them will get a chance to start over again clean and new.

I prefer this model or interpretation of Joseph Smith's words, because when I was in hell, I simply wanted to cease to exist. Annihilation or ceasing to exist was looked upon by me as the greatest possible blessing or gift that I could receive. I didn't want Eternal Life. I wanted to cease to exist. This particular interpretation of Joseph Smith's words would have given me what I wanted most, especially if I continued to remain in hell and outer darkness. It would have been a great mercy to one day cease to exist. Under this model, God's punishment ends up being merciful in the final analysis. Instead of being resurrected and made immortal in their misery and sins, the ultimate failures and devils die and are recycled; and, parts of them get to start over again fresh and new in some other spirit body and in some other realm of existence. Interesting, don't you think?

Of course, just because I prefer this model doesn't mean that this model is actually true or will actually happen. It's all just speculation and theory after all.

I Find All of This Interesting:

Since I started researching this topic and writing the “Of God and Goddesses” essays, I have been introduced to many interesting and strange ideas.

It is clear to me that there are millions of people who do not believe that there are Goddesses in Heaven. The concept of a Mother in Heaven is completely alien to them and makes no sense whatsoever. They don't see the need. Millions believe that there is only one God, and He is male. People are all over the map when it comes to Father in Heaven – is He literally our Father in Heaven, or is it simply a title or a figure of speech? There are also millions of people who believe that there is no afterlife and there is no God, that all of this is simply wishful thinking and a figment of our imagination. They don't see the point. It is all foolishness to them.

For someone like me, who lacks the spirit of revelation, it can be a confusing and difficult obstacle course to wade through. If I didn't find it interesting, of course, I wouldn't do it; but, that doesn't change the fact that the whole thing can get rather confusing at times. When it comes to all the differing opinions, the best that I can do for now is to choose not to choose. The only other thing I can do is to try to have some fun with it and see where it takes me.

One thing that I have noticed, though, is that I seem to be in good company. I have noticed that Dr. Margaret Barker and her “Temple Theology” has received either apathy or stiff opposition from the Christian Community in general, especially whenever she starts hinting that the God's might be plural, male and female, husband and wife, mother and father. This is an idea that many people do not want to hear. I sense her frustration and disappointment once in awhile.

I also have found that I have to walk away from it for awhile, regroup, and then come back to it fresh and new. The whole Academy for Temple Studies can be like drinking from a fire hose; it can be a bit overwhelming at times.

http://www.templestudies.org/home/

Trying to Understand the Dispensation Heads:

I continue to study and want to learn. Sometimes, though, I wonder if I am making any progress whatsoever, or if I am just spinning my wheels going nowhere.

When it comes to these various “Of God and Goddesses” essays, “Is any of this true”, you might ask. Once again, I don't know. Nevertheless, that's the same question that I continue to ask, “Is any of this true?” In the end, it will be however it will be. But sometimes, that response fails to satisfy.

I just wanted to explore all the different possibilities. For me, it's interesting to think about these things.

It is obvious to me that Joseph Smith's private or uncanonized teachings on this subject can be interpreted in many different contradictory ways. People have been kind enough to point-out to me that it is so. There seem to be as many different opinions on the subject as there are Latter-day Saints. I assume that's why none of this has ever been canonized into the LDS Scriptures.

Too bad Joseph Smith is not still around, so that we could ask him what he truly said and what he really meant when he was talking about this subject. He's the only one I have ever encountered who claims to know how it will really be in Heaven, because God revealed it to him. Joseph Smith got to see the movie.

Alas, this has always been the neatest and most convenient aspect of the dead prophets, because their words can be taken and rewritten or reinterpreted; and, they are no longer around to defend themselves or tell us what they really meant. The Bible was written by prophets and scribes who are all dead now. All dead. The same can actually be said of the official canonized LDS Scriptures. The authors or revelators are all dead now. Once the prophets are dead, we can change and reinterpret their words at will, because they are no longer around to tell us what they truly meant.

Recently, I even came across a group who are trying to create a Gay Bible, where God sustains and supports homosexual acts and is even a practicing homosexual Himself. In the Gay Bible, Jesus will also be a practicing homosexual, and the Twelve Apostles are His wives. Obviously, this whole enterprise becomes a lot more feasible and real and realistic, if God has no father, mother, wife, son, or daughter. Then God the Father can indeed be homosexual after all, especially if we are all co-eternal with God and we're all consenting adults right from the very start. Why couldn't God be homosexual if there are NO parents in Heaven and no parenting taking place in Heaven, and if we are all co-eternal with God? If there is NO “traditional marriage” in Heaven, then why couldn't God be homosexual or asexual if He wanted to be? Interesting, don't you think?

It's possible that the gay activists and the Sadducees might be right after all. Of course, I know that God's homosexuality is an idea that will make some people very uncomfortable in the extreme (some will come crawling right out of their skin when presented with this idea); but, that has been the nature of all these essays. It's no different than when puritanical ladies and upright men are presented with the idea that there might be marriage, sex, and polygamy in Heaven. Some of them come unglued at the idea. It's to be expected. Some of these ideas have shocking implications. After all, we are trying to talk about Marriage, the pre-existence, the afterlife, a Mother in Heaven, God's plans for us, Heaven, and God, which have all been controversial subjects throughout the whole of recorded history.

In these essays, I have been trying to discuss and present many uncomfortable subjects right from the very beginning. Open mouth. Insert foot.

Uncomfortable much?

Responding to a Question:

When writing my “Of God and Goddesses” essays, I believe that I did a great job of summarizing all of the input I was receiving from The Academy for Temple Studies, an inter-denominational group sponsored by some LDS scholars. What I didn't do is adequately present the official LDS point of view, where this subject is concerned.

Dustin Peterson asked me for input from Joseph Smith that supports my chosen assumptions or points of view. In a sense, he is asking me how I personally interpret Joseph Smith's teachings and words. So here goes:

D&C 93:29-30,36:

29 Man was also in the beginning with God. Intelligence, or the light of truth, was not created or made, neither indeed can be.

30 All truth is independent in that sphere in which God has placed it, to act for itself, as all intelligence also; otherwise there is no existence.

36 The glory of God is intelligence, or, in other words, light and truth.

D&C 130:18-19:

18 Whatever principle of intelligence we attain unto in this life, it will rise with us in the resurrection.

19 And if a person gains more knowledge and intelligence in this life through his diligence and obedience than another, he will have so much the advantage in the world to come.

Abraham 3: 21-24:

21 I dwell in the midst of them all; I now, therefore, have come down unto thee to declare unto thee the works which my hands have made, wherein my wisdom excelleth them all, for I rule in the heavens above, and in the earth beneath, in all wisdom and prudence, over all the intelligences thine eyes have seen from the beginning; I came down in the beginning in the midst of all the intelligences thou hast seen.

22 Now the Lord had shown unto me, Abraham, the intelligences that were organized before the world was; and among all these there were many of the noble and great ones;

23 And God saw these souls that they were good, and he stood in the midst of them, and he said: These I will make my rulers; for he stood among those that were spirits, and he saw that they were good; and he said unto me: Abraham, thou art one of them; thou wast chosen before thou wast born.

24 And there stood one among them that was like unto God, and he said unto those who were with him: We will go down, for there is space there, and we will take of these materials, and we will make an earth whereon these may dwell.

D&C 131:7-8

7 There is no such thing as immaterial matter. All spirit is matter, but it is more fine or pure, and can only be discerned by purer eyes;

8 We cannot see it; but when our bodies are purified we shall see that it is all matter.

Of the people who have asked me questions about my “Of God and Goddesses” essays, Dustin Peterson is the one who has asked me the most pertinent and the most interesting of questions. He has led me into further study and further insight. I thank him publicly for his input and questions.

Dustin Peterson asked:

I appreciate all of the effort and insight you put into your posts. I don't always agree (with much to be honest) but I appreciate it nonetheless. I'm not sure how you come to some of the conclusions you do though. There is so much here I think it would be impossible to address everything. Do you assume, for example, that because I don't believe They are literally our spirit parents that I must therefore believe, to quote you above, "there are no Goddesses in Heaven"? Or that "there will be NO husbands and wives or marriage in Heaven"? Or that it will only be "It will be mentoring instead of parenting"? (Semantics on that last one).http://www.ldsfreedomforum.com/viewtopic.php?f=14&t=33717

My response was, “No.”

Although this has now been expanded, in response to Dustin's questions, I continued with something to this effect:

I was trying to represent the general overall view or consensus of everyone who holds the view that God is not the literal father (or mother) of our spirits. I used your input, because I felt that it was the perfect introduction to the point of view held by millions that God is NOT the literal Father of our spirits. Obviously, they hold this view for varying different reasons, but the view is still the same in general principle. There is no need for a Mother in Heaven or pre-mortal birth, because there is no pre-mortal existence, or God is single and God is male, or there are no Goddesses, or there is no sexual intercourse in Heaven, or God is gay, or there are no pregnancies and birth in Heaven, or there is no marriage in Heaven, or the Gods are parents in title only and it's not to be taken literally, or the spirit body is immortal and co-eternal with God. In summary, there is no birthing whatsoever taking place in Heaven.

I found that some form of this view is held by Jewish Rabbis, most of the Christian world, and probably the Muslims as well. It's clear to me that only the LDS General Authorities from the foundation of the LDS Church believe that God the Father is literally the father of our spirit bodies, and that we each have a Mother in Heaven, who is the literal mother of our spirit bodies. The Mormons stand alone, when it comes to the belief that we have spirits or spirit bodies and that our spirit bodies are born from Heavenly Mother in the pre-mortal realms.

I took your input seriously. I actually did the mental experiment where I started with the assumption that what you said is actually true, and then I lived with it for a few days while my mind explored all of the different ramifications of the belief that the Gods are NOT the literal parents of our spirit bodies and that our spirit bodies are eternal with no beginning and no end. After awhile, I started running into some difficulties sustaining that point of view, especially if I limited myself to the LDS General Authorities and LDS Scholars.
The problem that I am having with your interpretation stating that They are NOT the literal parents of our spirits or spirit bodies comes from the fact that I have access to thousands of books and articles from the LDS General Authorities and LDS Scholars from the very foundation of the LDS Church, and I can search it all instantly. I can search "Intelligences" and come up with over a thousand hits. I can search "Spirit Children" and come up with thousands of hits. I can search "Literal Spirit Children" and come up with hundreds of hits. I can search for "Spirit Body" and come up with thousands of hits. I have done so. And I have started reading down through all the material. Never once do any of the LDS General Authorities or LDS Scholars present the interpretation of Spirits and Intelligences the way that you present it. Your interpretation doesn't fit.

The LDS General Authorities from the very beginning all seem to be in agreement that our spirit bodies are literally the offspring of Heavenly Father and Heavenly Mother. Every one of them seems to say that we were literally born as spirits to Heavenly Father (and Heavenly Mother), and that we are literally their offspring or their spirit children. Some of them talk about Spirit DNA. They are all in agreement that Jesus is our elder brother, literally the first born spirit body or spirit child of God the Father. From what I can see, they are all in agreement that you and I are literally brothers, spiritually speaking; we have the same Father of our spirit bodies. Over and over again, from any angle that I try to look at it, I find no support for your particular interpretation of Joseph Smith's words, among the writings of the LDS Scholars and LDS General Authorities.
There are two main interpretations for Intelligences. Intelligences are either our spirit bodies, or Intelligences are the eternal essence or our eternal self that is born into our spirit bodies.

The way that I see it, these are one and the same. The spirit bodies that Heavenly Mother gives birth to in the pre-existence are filled with some kind of Intelligence. Then God the Father can stand among these Intelligences or spirit bodies and see that they are good.

Long ago, I noticed that “Intelligences” was mentioned in Abraham 3. At the time, I noticed that Abraham started by talking about Intelligences, and then suddenly Abraham switched over to calling them spirits. Initially, it was quite confusing to me. Why would he do that? After study and thought, my eventual conclusion was that there is a difference between Intelligences and spirits, and Abraham was witnessing the transition that took place between the two.

Borrowing from Joseph Smith's ideas, I come up with something like this. Combine Intelligence with spirit matter, and it becomes a living spirit, spirit body, or soul. There's a transition that takes place there when the spirit body is born. It's also clear to me that God the Father can see the Intelligences, walk among them, and possibly select the best or the greatest of them to become His spirit children. I imagine that God the Father employed the same process when He chose Christ Jehovah to be His Firstborn son in the spirit.

Over the years, I have also been given the impression that Intelligences are species neutral and gender neutral. Joseph Smith describes Intelligence as light and truth. Light and truth are completely different than spirit bodies, which are made up of spirit matter. Joseph Smith also talks some about spirit matter. The light and truth (Intelligences) are immortal and have always existed, but Joseph doesn't describe them as being matter of any kind. Yes, the spirit matter is also eternal, but matter can be disorganized and then re-organized. Spirit matter can be organized into a spirit body. Spirit matter can be born. I also personally believe that spirit matter or spirit bodies can die, hence we have terms like “spiritual rebirth” and “spiritual death” which show up all over the place in Joseph Smith's revelations and the LDS Scriptures in general. These might not be metaphors, but might in fact can be taken literally, meaning that a spirit body or a spirit can literally die, just like it can literally be born or reborn.

This is the way I see it: Intelligences don't have gender, and they don't belong to any type of race, species, or life form. Intelligences are light and truth, our eternal essence or our eternal self-awareness or our intelligence. Intelligences can be born into or put into any kind of spirit body – cat, dog, flea, tree, horse, or man. Intelligences take on species and gender when they are born into or placed into a spirit body of some kind. From Joseph Smith's canonized revelations, we get, “Intelligences are light and truth” and “spirit is matter”. Spirit bodies are made up of spirit matter, and matter can be manipulated or reorganized. In contrast, Light and Truth (Intelligences) have always existed. You can't manipulate or mold Intelligences. Intelligences just are; but, you can put them into a container, a spirit body of some kind; and thus, they become a spirit or become spiritual.

The problem comes in the fact that people (all the way from prophets to scribes) tend to use Intelligences and spirits interchangeably without trying to make any distinction between the two whatsoever. That gets very confusing at times. What I have done here for you is to try to make a distinction between the two. In the process, I have explained what it all has come to mean to me. I am not a professional scholar, but I am an LDS scholar, and this is how I tend to interpret the words “Intelligences” and “Spirits”, at least until the scribes and authors start mixing them and using them interchangeably, and then all bets are off.

So, there you have it. That's what I have personally gotten out of it while trying to make sense of it all. If any of it is useful to you, then take it and run with it. Notice that I tried to limit myself to Joseph Smith, per your request. Actually, that wasn't hard to do, because Joseph Smith is what all of the LDS Prophets and LDS Scholars base their beliefs upon where this subject is concerned. Joseph Smith knew, and the rest of us are just trying to figure out what he knew.

Regarding your initial input to me, any way I look at it, your particular interpretation of Joseph Smith's words do not fit with anything that I can find from the LDS General Authorities or LDS scholars. So, the best I can do is just quote you and then tell the people what your quotes mean to me, or present the possible ramifications of your chosen beliefs if they are indeed true.
I have to go outside the LDS Church to find support for your particular interpretation of Spirits, Spirit Bodies, Spirit Children, and Intelligences, because I'm not finding it in the writings of the LDS Apostles and Prophets. So, I have done so and gone outside the LDS Church in order to research and present your particular point of view (that Heavenly Father and Heavenly Mother are not literally the parents of our spirits or spirit bodies). It has been a very interesting process, but I am finding no support for your point of view, unless I go outside the LDS Church to find it. Sorry, that's just the way it is.

Your input stirred me up a lot. It made me study and think. It was good for me. Thank you.

I stuck my own name on this because I viewed it as a long-term project or area of study; and, I truly wanted input, especially opposing input, or contradictory input, or alternative avenues of thought and study. You gave me exactly what I was looking for. Thank you. I had no idea where that invitation for opposing points of view would eventually take me, but so far it has turned out pretty much as I had hoped that it would turn out. It has given me new and interesting things to study and think about.
The verdict: The LDS General Authorities and LDS Scholars are coming up thousands to one against your points of view. On the other hand, there are millions and probably billions of people outside of the LDS Church who hold and support your points of view in one form or another for various different reasons. It is what it is.

Thank you, Dustin, for your questions and input.

http://www.ldsfreedomforum.com/viewtopic.php?f=14&t=33717

Going into the Gruesome Details:

Rated-PG (Parental Guidance). In all of these essays, I operate on the assumption that if a person is old enough to find the material, read the material, and understand the material, then he/she is also mature enough to handle the material. Now, I'm going to talk about the spirits and the sprites, or the birds and the bees.

Let's think about all this for a moment. What is my assumption or interpretation to all of this? My initial assumptions are in line with the teachings of the LDS General Authorities and LDS Scholars since the foundation of the LDS Church. I'm making the claim that each one of our immortal co-eternal indestructible Intelligences is born into a spirit body in the pre-mortal life and that Heavenly Father and Heavenly Mother are literally the “biological” parents of our spirit bodies. Our spirit bodies are literally related to them, because they are indeed the parents of our spirit bodies. Our spirit bodies literally come into being or come into life at the moment that Heavenly Mother gives birth to them, in the pre-mortal realms.

Now, think about what this entails.

First we start with a glorified exalted woman, Heavenly Mother; and, she has a physical body every bit as tangible and bulky as mine or yours. Now, what is it that she is gestating or giving birth to? She is literally carrying and then giving birth to spirit bodies. What's the weight differential between a spirit body and a physical body? How many spirit bodies can fit inside a single physical body?

Jesus encountered something that called itself Legion. Legion was a single physical body that was possessed by hundreds or thousands of diabolical spirit bodies. A Roman legion was comprised of 5,400 soldiers. So, if the size of a Roman legion is any indication of what it means to be Legion, then there could have been as many as 5,400 devils or spirit bodies inside that one man. No wonders the guy was insane. (Luke 8: 30).

So, how many spirit bodies can fit inside the womb of Heavenly Mother? What is it like to give birth to spirit bodies? How long does it take to gestate a spirit body from conception to birth?

I imagine that thousands of spirit bodies can be carried and then birthed all at the same time by Heavenly Mother. I also imagine that giving birth to thousands of spirit bodies is not much different than passing gas. Have you ever passed wind? I imagine that it's much like that for Heavenly Mother when she gives birth to thousands of spirit children all at once. It's certainly not going to be anything like what women go through when gestating and giving birth to physical bodies. Women can pass air vaginally to equalize the pressure. I don't think it's going to be any big deal for them to carry and give birth to thousands of spirit children all at once.

How long is the spirit bun in the oven? That I can't tell you, but I would guess that a spirit body could be produced much faster than a physical body; and, even if I am wrong and it takes 9 months to produce a spirit body or a gaggle of spirit bodies, I'm pretty much sure that Heavenly Mother wouldn't feel a thing while it is happening, unless She wanted to. She could be pregnant repeatedly for all eternity and hardly know that it was so. Sometimes She would only know that She had been pregnant when She “burps” or “farts” and suddenly thousands of spirit children appear before Her. I do believe that the birthing process in Heaven will be (and has been) much different than it is here.

I suppose that in Heaven, being pregnant will not be the kind of bondage or hardship or burden that it is considered to be here in mortality; yet, I imagine that sex could continue to still be fun if the couple chooses to make it so. Can you imagine what it might be like for a man or a woman to have an “infinite and eternal” orgasm all at once? I can imagine that it would rock worlds.

I personally believe that spirit bodies don't need to eat, and thus they don't urinate or defecate either. Thus, there will be no diapers or any of that mess to deal with, so Heavenly Mother can have millions of spirit children all at once and there will be no difficulty whatsoever feeding or taking care of them. She can just spend Her time loving them. In fact, I visualize that spirit children actually feed on beauty, warmth, light, and love. Love is what makes them grow. Love is spiritual food.

Meanwhile, Heavenly Mother can go shopping and planet-hopping and sight-seeing and take thousands of spirit children along with Her in Her purse or in Her womb. It's not the same ballgame at all, especially when compared to physical birth and parenting. I imagine that it could actually be fun to be parents to millions of spirit children all at once. I certainly do believe that the yoke will be easy and the burden will be light when it comes to spirit bodies and spirit children, despite the huge numbers that are most likely involved.

I was told recently that God the Father personifies justice, order, structure, rules, and law. In contrast, Heavenly Mother personifies mercy, compassion, tenderness, charity, and love. If you want to participate in the construction business, you go to Heavenly Father. If you want to engage in the nurturing, merciful, compassionate, loving business, then you go to Heavenly Mother. Neither can be perfect or complete without the other. Think about your own mother and father. Who is the one that you run from whenever you do something wrong, and who is the one that you run to for love and protection whenever things go wrong? Who do you run to for protection when you are running away from the other one?

In Heaven, many things will change, but some things will remain the same. However, I don't think we are going to be changing any diapers.

Conclusion:

Is any of this true? Is any of this right? Does any of this feel right to you?

So, what do I think about all of this? It doesn't matter what I think or believe. That's what I think. Whatever will be, will be. Have I accomplished anything of value or worth with any of these essays or research? You will have to be the judge of that. So, when it comes to Heaven, how will it all really be? Do you want to vote on it? I wish I knew, and I wish I could tell you the way it really is.

I think if God were to tell me or show me how it really is, then He would probably put me under strict command not to reveal it. I personally believe that that is exactly what happened to Joseph Smith, Enoch, Moses, Abraham, the Brother of Jared, Nephi, Isaiah, John the Revelator, and any of the other great Seers. They were shown it all and then told not to reveal it.

For now, we don't really know how it will truly be, and apparently we won't be told until sometime during the Millennium.

D&C 121:26-29:

26 God shall give unto you knowledge by his holy Spirit, yea, by the unspeakable gift of the Holy Ghost, that has not been revealed since the world was until now;

27 Which our forefathers have awaited with anxious expectation to be revealed in the last times, which their minds were pointed to by the angels, as held in reserve for the fulness of their glory;

28 A time to come in the which nothing shall be withheld, whether there be one God or many gods, they shall be manifest.

29 All thrones and dominions, principalities and powers, shall be revealed and set forth upon all who have endured valiantly for the gospel of Jesus Christ.

D&C 101:29-35:

29 And there shall be no sorrow because there is no death.

30 In that day an infant shall not die until he is old; and his life shall be as the age of a tree;

31 And when he dies he shall not sleep, that is to say in the earth, but shall be changed in the twinkling of an eye, and shall be caught up, and his rest shall be glorious.

32 Yea, verily I say unto you, in that day when the Lord shall come, he shall reveal all things--

33 Things which have passed, and hidden things which no man knew, things of the earth, by which it was made, and the purpose and the end thereof--

34 Things most precious, things that are above, and things that are beneath, things that are in the earth, and upon the earth, and in heaven.

35 And all they who suffer persecution for my name, and endure in faith, though they are called to lay down their lives for my sake yet shall they partake of all this glory.

Sorry if I didn't solve anything for you but only gave you more to think about; but, that's the way it has been for me too. The best I can hope for is that some of you found some of this interesting. I usually like to take the LDS Scriptures literally, but sometimes the contradictions make it impossible to do so. I don't have the gift of revelation, so I'm flying blind like most everyone else that I know. All of this has been nothing more than personal speculation. I have been told that speculation will get us nowhere in the end, despite the fact that many of us like to speculate and guess how it will be in Heaven.

For now, don't pick a favorite theory of Heaven and the afterlife and rely upon it to be true. Relax and roll with it. That's the best we can do in the here and now. That's my recommendation. I assume that God chose not to reveal these things to us for a reason. What that reason is, I do not know. Therefore, I don't think that knowledge of Heaven or our own personal model of Heaven will matter to our salvation or exaltation one way or the other, so long as we side with Christ and choose Christ and His Church and His Gospel for our ordinances and salvation here and now. Whatever ends up being in Heaven and the afterlife, will be how it will be. Whatever will be, will be. Pragmatic, don't you think?

“So, what did you do this weekend?” you ask. Well, now that I think about it, I wrote another book.

Best of luck to you all,

Mark My Words

26MAY2014 Version.